Frosty Breath, how to prevent a soggy sleeping bag?

[Benjamin Gregoire]

Hi everyone, this is my first forum post outside of the gear swap. Been winter camping for a couple years now and am still trying to find solutions to prevent humidity from accumulating in by bag. Of course, I use a VBL and that helps tons. At first, I tried to keep my head outside of my bag to reduce my breath's contact with the bag but after a few very cold night using lighter-weight setups, I learned the hard way that this can be a bad idea (a frostbitten scalp).

I basically looking for a neat solution that might help me reduce wetting of the bag around the neck area due to my breath. I like to go lightweight so have been using my WM Antelope MF. I've been thinking of creating a waterproof "bib" that i could velcro or clip onto the exterior of my bag or onto my VBL and have it come out and over the bag in the neck area once again. Anyone played around with the idea? Any better ideas?

I have also searched for bags that would have a waterproof zone specifically around the neck and a MF or otherwize everywhere else to reduce humidity buildup but my research has come up empty. Besides a solution that i might transfer from bag to bag sounds more interesting anyhow.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Nick Gatel]

I use a zPacks down hood these days.

Edit: That's not me in the picture :) I think it is Mrs. Velasco.

[Eric Lundquist]

Shug, of hammocking fame, uses a frost bib made of fleece to capture the moisture from his breath from getting into his insulation.

Cold Weather Frost Bib @ HammockForums

[Billy Ray]

you could sleep with you head in a plastic bag…
that would do the trick… but you might not wake up until your next life time… :)

billy

[Benjamin Gregoire]

Eric! Awesome trick and so much easier than coming up with a waterproof bib. A cut up polarfleece jacket w/ neck attachment. Catches humidity and yet is very breathable. Brilliant. I will try it out and perhaps playing around with a shockcord attachment to wrap the lower end around my bag as i tend to move around at night quite a bit. However, i'll need to figure out an a way to dry it on multi-night outings. In the end, the same concept mad in a waterproof material or waterproof/polar fleece combo might be ideal?!

Any other ideas out there?

[Jerry Adams]

I have supplex fabric covering my shoulders. Less condensation on it. It's part of my quilt.

Fleece is good but supplex better

[Benjamin Gregoire]

Why is supplex better? Never heard of it, where can I buy some? Do you have a piece hanging around?

[Jerry Adams]

I don't know why supplex is better. The fibers are very fine. It's nylon. I've had that exact problem and have experimented with a number of fabrics.

It's sort of generic. A lot of pants are made with similar material. Sort of a cotton cloth like feel.

You can get it from local fabric store. http://www.owfinc.com/ sells it. Many other fabric places sell it. Maybe $5 for 1 yard x 60 inches.

"2 ply" weighs a little less than "4 ply" – 3.4 vs 4.4 oz/yd2. 2 ply is fine. Maybe 4 ply good for pants that are subject to abrasion. "ply" is just an indication of weight and doesn't mean there are 2 or 4 layers or anything.

[Tim Skidmore]

A heavy wool toque paired with a merino buff (sold at MEC as a chaos tube) works pretty well for me. I unroll the toque down to the tip of my nose (I'm trying to sleep so I don't need to see). I wear the buff over my neck and lower face up to my lips then leave my head out of the bag. The buff does get pretty crusted up with frost sometimes but it's easy to clear.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Get a Psolar face mask that contains copper mesh to warm incoming breath. It works to reduce the amount of moisture lost from your body due to the effects of breathing cold air. And it keeps your nose warm (a truly essential item in winter sleeping comfort).

It does work in very cold situations but sometimes it slips off center during the night. You'll notice it and wake enough to put it back into position.

[Roger Caffin]

I suggest that it is self-evident that breathing out water vapor inside your SB is a bad idea.
Now, all you have to do is find alternate head covering to keep your head warm.

Cheers

[Benjamin Gregoire]

Self evident perhaps, until a certain temperature. -30C and below, I have yet to find a system as warm as my winter sleeping bag hood.

[Roger Caffin]

> I have yet to find a system as warm as my winter sleeping bag hood.
Try a down balaclava/hood. The way they fit keeps them from getting over your face.

I hear you about severe cold. I find that with just a little effort/training/will I can keep my quilt hood over the back of my head while clear of my face.

Cheers

[Christian Edstrom]

I took the sleeve from a kids insulated jacket, cut it off about 6" long. I sewed one end onto a balaclava with a small face hole and sewed a fur ruff onto one end. I position the balaclava opening over my nose and mouth, and have the "chimney" exit my sleeping bag via the opening. My prototype (though I never made a production one) is too floppy – but with some stiffening, it will stand up like a chimney, and the fur ruff prevents draft entering the chimney, so you get a nice microclimate in there.

In a perfect world, I'd make one out of silnylon on the inside so water vapor from your breath doesn't go into the insulation. I'd also like to sew a fleece balaclava that has the hole in just the right place for the nose/mouth. But in practice, neither one of these has been a problem.

I think this description is clear, but let me know if you need more info.

The Nemo Canon does this stock, but obviously, that's connected to the bag, not your head.

[Christian Edstrom]

BTW, Benjamin, you're wearing a wonderful hood in your pic. So just imagine that, at 1/3 scale for your mouth.

[r m]

Do people ever attach a bit of lightweight tubing to vent air out of their masks, say 10' away from their face? Would make rolling over a potential pain, but then any movement when its cold and you're trying to stay warm involves rearranging things. (People with sleep apnoea manage to great nights sleep with a mask, tube and very noisy machine)

This will probably make your neck condensation worse, but I found a very interesting idea:

Nemo tent

[victor larivee]

I've tried a simple dusk mask and it worked pretty good, similar to a 3M 8511 N95 Industrial Respirator with Valve

[Jesse Hutchinson]

Well, for me, I simply add thirty pounds to my base weight, and bring a titanium woodstove, and tent, and have heat all night. lol I often wondered about adding a coyote fur ruff to a sleeping bag…frosts less, keeps face warm, and isnt heavy. And if it frosts up, knock the frost free… I have a psolar face mask, and while it works fine, and preheats the air well, it is quite rigid on my face and makes my jaw ache. Yours may be different, but mine functions well, but is uber uncomfortable.

[Steve K]

> Do people ever attach a bit of lightweight tubing to vent air out of their masks, say 10' away from their face? As any scuba practitioner learns, unless you had one way valves and two sets of tubes, you would suffocate. A certain volume of air would remain stagnant in the middle of the tube and would not refresh with outside air. This is why snorkels for recreation are only about a foot long. As for me, my solution is simply to drape my belay parka over my body inside the bag to block heat loss. The hood can get a little moist, particularly when I sleep on my side, but a combination of a light jacket hood and a hat keep me warm even when the sleeping bag hood has frost on it. No breathing condensation gets into the rest of the bag, but of course insensitive perspiration does.

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