Waterproof Bivy or Tarp + lightweight Bivy?

[Christoph Blank]

Hi there,

For this summer I want to have a lightweight shelter, mostly used for quick overnight (1 night) photography trips in the alps. Usually when I want to take photos in the mountains, early morning, some astrophotography etc. Mostly summer and 3-season use, I like to sleep under the stars.
However, I also want a flexible combination that I can as well use in a modular way on longer trips.

Therefore I'm looking for 1) a good rectangular tarp and 2) a bivy. I often know that the chance for rain is very small, so I can sleep in my sleeping bag or a lightweight bivy only. However, as I don't really like surprises I think the best combination would be to take a (more or less?) waterproof bivy (that I can also use as an emergency bivy for winter ski-touring) and a lightweight tarp such as the zpacks cuben tarp.

This would be a very flexible combination, although I'm taking 2 waterproof shelters with me. But I could either use the tarp alone, tarp + bivy if it's cold or strong wind + rain, bivy alone if it's only misty, and so on..

I'd like to hear some opinions, how are you doing this, what is your experience, maybe someone has the same needs? :)

Thanks a lot!
Christoph

[Justin Baker]

If you have a larger tarp (10×10) you can get away with just a tarp (no bivy) so long as you aren't getting super crazy weather with sideways blowing rain.

[Jo Jo Morrison]

I've got an REI minimalist for sale over on the gear swap (you'll have to look a few days back to last weekend).

[Tony Wong]

Christopher,

I have a Mountain Laurel Designs eVent Soul Side Zip from 2008 and love it.

However, now that I have years of experience with it, I would recommend a Superlight Bivy that is water resistant and take the weight savings and getting a good/larger tarp to provide a lot of overhead protection and side protection.

The eVent is great, but not as breathable as the non waterproof material.

I chose the eVent bivy as a bomber setup in case I failed to pitch a tarp properly.

I had never used a tarp before, but realize that with some experience, there was no need for me to go Bomber with the waterproof bivy.

That said, I am in California and take my trips in the Sierras, where I have not had to deal with constant rain, like in the PNW.

One issue with relying on only a waterproof bivy would be how to protect yourself when breaking down camp in the morning while raining.

If you were to go through a storm with bivy only, I would look to put the head of my bivy at the base of a large tree with healthy limbs that don't look like they will break off and crush you. Let the tree canopy offer you some overhead protection.

My advice….Tarp with good coverage and a non waterproof bivy, which will help with condensation issues.

Tony

[Christoph Blank]

You're probably right.. also, if it's really raining I have to protect my photo gear, backpack, etc anyway.. so there is not really a use for a fully waterproof bivvy.

Alright, I will then take a good tarp (probably the zpacks, rectangle). The question is, which lightweight bivy – what are the options here?

I found the MLD Superlight and Zpacks Splash so far

[Tony Wong]

Christopher,

I am very bias to MLD/Mountain Laurel Designs.

They have a great reputation for quality and service….not the cheapest, but worth it in my opinion.

Superlight is the one to go for.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=30

Borah Gear is another option that offers good value and I have heard that they are happy to work with you for custom work, if you want it.

http://www.borahgear.com/products.html

There are others out there, but these are the ones that stand out in my mind at the moment.

If you are looking for a ground sheet to lay out your gear, then check out Gossamer Gear's polycryo ground sheets. Light, cheap, and fairly durable.

http://gossamergear.com/polycryo-ground-cloth-medium.html

Alternatives that are lightweight are Tyvek, which is a house building material for wrapping houses.

Tony

[Christoph Blank]

Right now I tend towards this combination:

MLD Superlight Bivy
ZPacks Rectangular Tarp (133 grams)

Another option for the tarp would be the MLD Grace

[Tony Wong]

Zpacks makes good stuff.

Informatively, I think that MLD uses a thicker/heavier/stronger version of Cuben… 0.7 vs. 0.5 type thickness of Cuben.

That said, think you will be fine.

Tony

[Theo Diekmann]

I personally like my waterproof bivy. I usually bring it for short trips with a good weather forecast. I like how you really are outside in a bivy, instead of some crappy version of indoors like in a tent. That's a pretty unrational argument, though. On the objective side, the only real advantage of a wp-bivy is that you can camp anywhere w/o having to worry about wind or sizeable tarp/tent footprints. Weight-wise, most waterproof bivies don't really provide any advantage over state-of-the-art tarp-only or tarp+water-resistant bivy solutions.
Also, for bad weather forecasts, you will still need a tarp as an alternative or addon to your bivy unless you willingly accept spending rainy nights trapped in a bivy (not to speak about the hassle to get in/out of a bivy, undressing etc. during rain).

Bottom line is: If you're as romantic about feeling outside and connected to nature w/o barriers as I am, get a waterproof bivy and a supplementary tarp for bad weather. If you're not, just skip the waterproof bivy and invest in a good tarp or tarp+water-resistant bivy combination.

[Eric Blanche]

In addition to Mountain Laurel Designs, Zpacks, and Borah Gear, you can also find the Titanium Goat variations as well as Ruta Locura with the wasatch bivy.

After deciding to go to a tarp for some extra protection, the next question to ponder is 'go for a larger tarp and use a bug bivy/no bivy at all, or a smaller tarp with a weather resistant bivy?'

Good luck!

[Tim Skidmore]

I found that I sweat so much in my waterproof bivy that it wasn't worth it. Now I go with a light MYOG bug bivy with a waterproof (OK really water resistant) bottom, and a tarp for rain protection.

I'm pretty happy with it so far. I like not being in a tent, but I also like keeping the bugs off.

PS I'm not claustrophobic.

[Christoph Blank]

The problem with only a waterproof bivy is that it would be getting difficult with my photo gear, etc..

I think I will go for the MLD Superlight plus a tarp. The tarp would be for when it starts to rain (gear), otherwise I can sleep (standalone) in the bivy and mist/dew as well as condensation won't be a problem. I think that's the most flexible solution.

I'm unsure which tarp to chose, the Zpacks rectangular seems to be very versatile with it's shape and loops. Others don't have that many loops and often have a predefined shape which restricts pitching possibilities.

[John G]

A square tarp pitches as a half pryramid a little better than a rectangular one. This is pretty handy in weather where the wind is shifting, but protection from 3 sides will cover all the possibilities. 10×10 is roomier at the head and foot end and has lots of overhang on the door side. 8×8 is ok, but cramped.

Another pitch a square tarp is better at is the flying diamond. This one is cramped, but able to withstand very high winds.

However, 90% of the time I use an A frame pitch – because mostly it's raining with light winds. Pitching a flat tarp wrinkle free isn't hard, but you can more easily get a truly tight wrinkle free pitch that will not be noisy in the wind with a cat cut tarp.

I have noticed that the foot end of the tarp needs more rain spray protection to prevent me from needing a bivy. (Since I slide that direction while sleeping). Pitching the foot end of the tarp half as high as the head end provides the needed extra protection. If you are using a bivy, I'd get one with a event foot box. This should protect against spray and touching the tarp with your feet (and getting condensation on your bag) while sleeping.

For the rest of the bivy, I believe a highly breathable fabric is best. Condensation builds up inside the bivy pretty easily with water proof fabrics.

[Christoph Blank]

I'm unsure about the footbox of the MLD superlight, whether or not this is already the breathable material.

As for the tarps, the zpacks is completely rectangular yeah.. if you pitch it lower at the bottom, it also gets wider – unless you have more loops at the bottom part so you can again pitch it narrower. It seems as if it does not have those.
The alternative would be either adding these loops or a different tarp, e.g. the MLD

[Mike M]

most of my solo trips I use a eVENT bivy, I'll add a small (5×5-ish) tarp if the weather looks poor- the bivy is waterproof but the small tarp over the upper portion of my bivy provides a little respite and allows me to cook out of the rain

the ability to throw down my camp anywhere, the small volume and light weight makes the best sense for my needs; I've also found the eVENT bivy to be perfect for snow caves/trenches

the other option that hasn't been mentioned is one of the smaller mids (solomid, etc)-would have plenty of room to protect any photo equipment and if you spring for cuben you likely be lighter than a tarp/bivy combo

[Nick Gatel]

A larger tarp is usually lighter than a smaller tarp + a bivy, assuming something light like Cuben Tech. As noted earlier, bivy not needed with a larger, properly pitched tarp.

Most sleeping bags and quilts these days are "somewhat" water resistant so a minimal "splash" isn't going to hurt them. In winter, where I live, it isn't unusual for my quilt or bag to be covered in condensation in the morning when 'cowboy' camping. It dries quickly once the sun is out or I wipe it off.

I quit using a bivy about 5 years ago when the tarps started getting extremely light. At that point I was in the poncho/tarp + bivy mode. With Cuben I was able to move to a much larger tarp and a dedicated poncho for much less weight, but at a significant cost.

Bugs are not a concern for me and when they are bad, woven nylon clothes and a headnet work fine.

There is no perfect system and each individual will need to assemble a combination that works for them. My experience with waterproof breathable bivies has been poor, and would never use one again. However for emergencies they are probably better than nothing.

I guess the question to ask yourself is why your shelter needs to be supplemented with a bivy and can you overcome the shelter's deficiency without a bivy, which in most cases would be a shelter that keeps you warm and dry.

[Chad B]

+1 to what Nick said.

In my opinion, never rely on a bivy for added warmth or protection from the elements. Simply put, bring adequate insulation and a large enough tarp.

[Christoph Blank]

That's a valid point yeah.. what I thought is that if the weather is nice enough I'd prefer to sleep without the tarp, I like that. But I'm unsure if my WM Down bag likes it as much as I do .. :)

I could get the tarp first and then just see..

What tarps for that purpose would you suggest?
And also, what separate poncho?

[Tim Skidmore]

The reason I've kept to a bug bivy with my tarp is the memory of counting 10 ticks on the tent (went with a friend) last year. Mind you we did camp too close to a game trail (it was more like a deer highway).

That was the result of when and where I camped, and you may not have tick issues where you are.

I pack my fears lol

[Christoph Blank]

Guys.. any tarp recommendations for the above purpose?
How large, what cut? I think I don't need a double sized one. It's only for me plus photo backpack. don't need a lot of room but it should protect me in rain.

Furthermore tarp + poncho combinations that are lighter than a poncho tarp would be interesting

[Link .]

Here is Eric the Blacks video of him in the rain with his Gossamer Gear Sil Twin 8×10 Tarp Camping In The Rain – Ultralight Backpacking

[Monte Masterson]

ZPacks 7' X 9' tarp paired with the Yama 1P net tent (cuben floor).
Total weight for both is just under 14 oz (without stakes).

The net tent would allow for much more space than a bivy, and only weighs an ounce or two more than an MLD Bug Bivy.

[Ben C]

I prefer a larger tarp (trailstar) with no bivy. But I live in the humid, rainy southeastern US. In rain, its nice to have both the ventilation and the room to spread out that a larger tarp allows. Its interesting that a desert hiker like Nick, who has almost opposite conditions, uses a similar set up.

[Ken Larson]

Has anyone used a ZPacks™ Splash Bivy with or without a tarp and what was your evaluation?

[Mark Parry]

I just bought a used MLD Grace Duo catenary cut tarp because A pitch is used so commonly with other tarps and the cat cut is easier to get a tighter A pitch (not as good for other pitches at all apparently). It was made extra long for the original owner–so this is a huge solo shelter. Since I have no experience with this, I am also wondering about a bivy.

Thanks for posting the thread so I can also learn from it, I'm first going to try with no bivy. It helps that I'm not using a down bag because I would be a lot more protective of one of those.

EDIT: I forgot the bug protection part, I will be camping in the jungle. My used MLD Grace Duo came with an "Alpenlite 1.25 Bug Net" w/silnylon floor, custom extra long, but mine is much heavier than the cuben Yama 1p being mentioned above at 13+oz on its' own, nearly twice as heavy as the tarp (I think Yama is the new name for Alpenlite?). with the older version of that Yama 1p Bug Net, (used to be called Alpenlite?) in silnylon, it weights a lot more, 13 or 14 oz I think?

I also got a "tarp beak" that helps close off one end of the a-pitched tarp, but I don't think it's quite large enough to fully close the tall end of my tarp unfortunately. I'm still going to just try sleeping under it without bivy, it is a huge tarp. That is an older model hyperlight mountain gear beak I think.

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