National Geographic map kit software – worth it?

[Yoyo]

http://www.rei.com/product/849099/national-geographic-ultimate-outdoor-map-kit

I'm not entirely clear on this, but it appears that the above product allows you to install software on your computer that displays all the Trails Illustrated maps so that you can print out exactly which portion you need. Is it too good to be true? Typically when I'm planning for a trip, I buy the $12 TI maps for the region I'm headed to, but I often end up with unused maps or I find that I want a different one, and it's too late. Would this software solve my problem?

[Bob Gross]

This may be the modern equivalent of the National Geographic TOPO! program that we had almost twenty years ago. Back then when networks were slow, the entire topo map database for California was on a set of eleven CD-R disks. Back then, the Trails Illustrated maps had a poor resolution. I would hope and expect that they are much better now.

If you look around hard, you may even find the original TOPO! program written by Wildflower Productions of San Francisco. That was purchased by National Geographic.

–B.G.–

[Andrew U]

"I'm not entirely clear on this, but it appears that the above product allows you to install software on your computer that displays all the Trails Illustrated maps so that you can print out exactly which portion you need."

It isn't software, it's a paid subscription to alltrails.com. It's cheaper to buy the kit from REI, but you can simply get a pro subscription online too.

I have it and I'm very happy with the service, let's you customize maps however you want. I haven't used any of the free mapping services on the net so I have nothing to compare AllTrails to. But I feel like I've gotten my money worth from the product.

I haven't printed anything on the "Adventure Paper" so I can't comment on that.

[Yoyo]

Does the AllTrails subscription allow your computer / mobile device to duplicate the same quality Trails Illustrated maps that you get when you buy the paper maps in the store? Is it an exact copy of it or just USGS maps with elevation profiles?

[Jeff McWilliams]

I have a paid subscription to AllTrails Pro, and I also use (and have donated to) Caltopo.com. I've also owned a few of the older Trails Illustrated TOPO! DVDs as well as Delorme's Topo North America product.

In places where Trails Illustrated has coverage, the map data (In AllTrails Pro) is really really good. It can be significantly better than USGS Topo or USFS data when you are looking for hiking trails, trail heads, camp sites, etc. This gives it a big leg up on competing products.

Some things I do not like about it:

When printing maps, there's no way that I know of to specify the map scale. You get a pre-set set of scales to choose from, and they are often non-standard scales. This doesn't mean much to most people. However, I know how to use and plot UTM coordinates, and this requires using a UTM plotter built to match the scale of your paper map. UTM plotters are built to the most popular map scales: 1:24,000, 1:25,000, 1:50,000, 1:62,250, etc. So it's frustrating to me that with AllTrails, I have no control over my map scale choices. The free online tool Caltopo.com offers "sane" map scale options, and the ability to choose an arbitrary scale defined by the user.

Second, I don't like the route drawing capabilities as much as what's offered by Caltopo.com. I find it much easier to draw, edit, resample, split, and join routes in Caltopo than I can in AllTrails.

The elevation profile statistics for a chosen route are user friendly in AllTrails Pro, but Caltopo has added some very sophisticated route statistics now that are quite interesting.

I haven't played with the AllTrails "smartphone App" feature, so I have no opinion about it.

There's nothing unique about AllTrails's ability to export .GPX files for use on GPS receivers.

The "social networking" aspect of AllTrails, offering the ability to share routes with others is interesting, but not unique. TrimbleOutdoors.com has a similar feature which enjoys widespread use.

The only compelling feature of AllTrails that keeps me paying is the Trails Illustrated map Data. But that's a mighty compelling feature! For everything else, I prefer Caltopo.

[Yoyo]

Jeff,

So to clarify, if I get the alltrail.com pro subscription, the need for Trails Illustrated hard-copy maps becomes obselete? I've probably spent hundreds of dollars over the years on these maps, and every new trip I have to shell out an additional $13 or so.

[Bob Moulder]

My suggestion is to try Caltopo and thoroughly explore its features to see if you can get it to fit your needs.

Amazingly good for something that is free. And you can upload and download gpx files to/from your GPSr with it.

You can print maps to any scale you like, complete with UTM grids, distance scales and magnetic declination. It even has a QR code printed on the map that will take you immediately to a smartphone-friendly version of the map and you can zoom in to any part you like.

To make things even better, print your maps on WeatherJet Waterproof paper, which is a product of RiteintheRain.com It is truly waterproof and it is totally smudge resistant and extremely scuff resistant. You can also print on both sides. Printer settings should be Plain paper/Best Photo quality, at least 400dpi and best at 600dpi (which is the maximum if you want to save it as a pdf).

[Bob Gross]

"WeatherJet Waterproof paper"

The only problem that I have with this waterproof paper is that it is fairly heavy on a per-sheet basis. I gave up on it and went to photo-grade inkjet paper, and then I carry multiple 13×19-inch map sheets inside a flimsy plastic produce bag or else the plastic bag that the paper was sold in.

–B.G.–

[Jerry Adams]

gallon ziploc bag is good for 8 1/2 x 11 paper. Maybe 8 1/2 x 10 1/2 would be better – you can cut a slice off the paper

[Michael Driscoll]

My 2 cents ' Would this software solve my problem?' …NO, NOT WORTH IT…

try and find an old TOPO discs for your state… I keep an old comp around with xp on it just for planning… caltopo and Bobs and Jerrys plastic bag ideas works for me, long trips has me using 2gal freezer bags…

[Bob Gross]

Even though my old National Geographic TOPO! software is ancient and it was designed for Windows 95, I run it on a relatively modern computer and OS.

Back in the day, there were competing programs with names like Topo, but none of them were as good.

–B.G.–

[Bob Moulder]

Perhaps the numbers trend in favor of the Ziploc/regular (or photo) paper maps for a much longer trip, but on our recent trip to the Whites I printed maps for our two hikes on opposite sides of the WeatherJet paper (8.5 x 11 inch).

The WeatherJet map weighs 7.9 grams.

The same maps (2 sheets, because you can't print on both sides) printed on Hammermill inkjet paper and placed in a gallon Ziploc storage bag (not freezer bag, which is heavier) weighed 18.5 grams. (In fact, probably a little more because I just weighed the paper+Ziploc without printing, such is the ridiculous price of ink cartridges.)

Two sheets of inkjet paper alone weigh 9.4 grams.

So for my purposes I'm sticking with WeatherJet… far more durable, waterproof, lighter, more compact and easier to access.

[Dihnekis]

I'm also a big fan of Caltopo. I have backcountry navigator pro for android and it works incredibly well, I'll have to try the weatherjet paper for when I need to actually carry paper maps.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Skurka's gear book tells how he prints his own "hybrid" maps and gives the internet addresses of his sources.

[NoCO-Jim]

+ Caltopo

[Jeff McWilliams]

Doesn't Skurka pretty much advocate use of the (defunct) National Geographic DVDs? Which is now AllTrails Pro?

[Michael Driscoll]

JEFF… DVD – online software… I am thinking apples and oranges… apples good… but then again YMMV…

[Jeff McWilliams]

You can't even purchase the DVD software any longer. The States series was discontinued a couple of years ago. It looked like they continued selling some of the parks series for a while, but I can't even find them for sale any longer. So unless you're looking for used versions on E-Bay, it's a non-options.

Sure, those apples may be better than the oranges, but I consider them unattainable, and Andy Skurka's book information outdated.

In his basic backpacking learning trips, Andy now uses AllTrails Pro. In fact, paid participants get a free year subscription. I know someone who took his beginner class in the Whites of NH last year.

[Rob P]

Hey Jeff,

One of your former Basic/Advanced Land Nav students here….took your classes last year (which were quite good by the way, so thanks!

Anyway, I remember discussing the software pros and cons in the class, but I was wondering if you had ever been in contact with the All Trails Pro people regarding the map scale issue. Sure would be interesting to hear why they don't have UTM compatible map scales.

[Anonymous]

I'll have to try caltopo but the Nat Geo software worked great for us. On our last, RMNP trip we built our own little loop around the park stitching together lots of trails and the software was nice for comparing cumulative mileage and elevation change. We tended to have gallon ziplocs anyways with print outs of Nat Geo maps, the little maps they give you at the park, as well as sheets printed out of our fourteeners book.

I have found seeming errors on my Nat Geo waterproof maps. But that's probably because the trails changed

[Jeff McWilliams]

Hey, Rob!

I thought at one point I did inquire about that but my recollection was that I didn't get a satisfactory answer. However, I could be mis-remembering. It may be worth asking them again about it.

Glad you liked the classes. :-)

[Bob Moulder]

I definitely wouldn't buy a product that doesn't have UTM grids. However, although Lat/Lon for hiking is very cumbersome to use, it is extremely handy and quick in the dd.ddddd format for plugging in trailhead locations with a vehicle-specific GPS.

[Nick Gatel]

I have been using Nat Geo Topo! for years on successive versions of Windows. Now running it on Windows 8.1.1 on a MacBook Pro.

For out of state hikes I view USGS maps on my iPad using Topo Maps for iOS and then download the map free from the USGS website. Then I print what I need. If I am away from home I download the map to a thumb drive and have staples print it. I no longer use waterproof paper — never got one wet enough to ruin it. Don't need UTM, waypointy thingies, bread crumbs, or track doohickeys. Often I just buy a road map and use that.

[Jeff McWilliams]

Bob M – Both AllTrails and Caltopo will print UTM grids on their maps.

The difference is that if you are interested in calculating your UTM position accurate to say, 10m, you'd want a 1:24K map along with a 1:24K UTM plotter or roamer. You can do that with Caltopo. You can't specify 1:24K scale printed maps with AllTrails.

That being said, as long as your map has 1KM UTM grid spacing, you can probably eyeball your UTM coordinates to within 1/10th of a KM. In a search and rescue scenario, that would still give would-be rescuers a 10,000 square meter search area which is not great, but may be fine depending on the conditions. It would be okay for other things, though.

One thing I like about AllTrails (and the older TOPO! DVDs) is that where they have Trails Illustrated data, the trail information is much more up to date. For example, I'm included two images below of a local hiking loop on national forest land in Michigan. The first is USGS Topo data, which is badly outdated, and the 2nd is AllTrails.com with the Trails Illustrated layer. I'd much rather have the 2nd as my trail map instead of the first, although I am disappointed by the lack of contour detail on the AllTrails map.

To be fair, in this particular case, CalTopo has a US Forest Service map layer which also depicts the same amount of trail details as the AllTrails map.

[Bob Moulder]

Hi, Jeff:

Yes, I always print Caltopo maps with UTM grids. Caltopo's Custom scaling is also very handy for some maps I print.

As for up-to-date trail locations, a little googling often turns up a recent and more accurate trail map, or even a gpx file with an actual track. GPS File Depot has some useful stuff.

[Author]

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