Late April Grand Canyon Hike

[Mike Megee]

Looking to see what you guys think of this gear list for a late April, 5 day 4 night Grand Canyon hike. First night Indian Gardens, Second night Salt Creek, Third and Fourth night Hermit Creek. I'm hoping it will be warm enough to use a WM Highlite but I do have a Marmot 15 and 30 degree bags if needed. Also I do have a rain jacket and wind jacket listed. Not sure if I'll bring both or just the rain jacket. Interested to see your opinions. Thanks
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dctoyJc1-xgXw7JnotBvJvp87o69pneyihx_zxUzKFg/edit#gid=0

[Eric Lundquist]

I think you could look at your packed clothing for some reductions. I'd skip the fleece top and wind pants (you're already hiking in nylon pants). If memory serves, I don't think you need any deet for the canyon either. What is this pack hanger/tree rope thing? Not many trees in the canyon… I see you're brining a zPacks foodbag. Keep in mind that if you leave the food unattended the ravens are more likely to get your food than the rats/mice. A steel mesh bag is usually reccomened against the ravens. I don't recall who makes/sells them though.

[Mike Megee]

Thanks Eric for your reply. I have one of those steel mesh bags and if memory servers it's called a Grub Bag. Thanks for reminding me of that I'll be sure and bring it. Could overt a major problem. Agree on the wind pants will probably ditch them. The only fleece clothing I have listed is a beanie and neck gaiter for just in case the nights get colder than expected. As far as the tree strap and deet goes. When I make these list for a specific hike I copy from a generic spread sheet then just do some adjusting. The items I decide not to take I put the weight as "0". I should have mention that.

[Ralph Burgess]

If they are not already in your First Aid kit, make sure that you have good flat-headed tweezers for cactus spines, and (unless your close vision is perfect) reading glasses in case you get glochids in your skin or clothing.

At the Tonto level where all your camps are, overnight lows in late April will usually be above 50. You can check the exact forecast at that elevation nearer the time by going to weather.gov and searching for "Indian Garden" (be sure to select the right one from the results, in the singular). It will be much colder on the rim in the early morning as you start your hike down, but don't be suckered into carrying a lot of extra insulation because of that.

ETA: Outsak Ultralight mesh bag is what you're looking for. I don't think it's absolutely essential – in many years, I've never had a problem with the ravens going for hung food in the GC, although I've had a toothbrush and sunglasses stolen when I forgot to pack them away! But rodents are rampant around the high-use campsites that you're using. For the small weight penalty the Outsak UL mesh bags are probably a wise belt-and-braces measure.

ETA: I like to wear gloves for protection. I like the disposable $5 Gorilla Grip work gloves (durable coating, nylon mesh back). These are thin enough that you can wear them the whole time without your hands getting uncomfortably hot, and they don't compromise dexterity. They can save your hands if you slip and instinctively grab a piece of sharp limestone; they protect you against the plants – all of which want to hurt you; and they stop your hands drying out and cracking in the low humidity.

[Sumi Wada]

By late April on the Tonto, you're going to see daytime temps in the 80's, possibly approaching 90, and night-time lows close to 60, maybe dipping into the mid-50's.

You'll be fine with the Highlite. You won't need most of the clothes, like the down jacket, beanie, gaiter, wind pants, wind jacket. Cap 3 bottoms will be overkill. You're much more likely to need shorts and a T-shirt. That time of year, I take my lightest baselayer set for sleeping and maybe one long-sleeved shirt/fleece/merino top. I do take a rain jacket but it's unlikely you'll actually need it for rain, but it may come in handy if you get a cool evening at Indian Garden.

You also DON'T need:
– fire starter, storm matches (take 2 bics total)
– Deet wipes
– Ace bandage (duct tape is enough… trust me)
– Compactor bag – I wouldn't take unless there's rain in the forecast
– Wire ties and paper – not sure what this is for

It looks like you have 5L total capacity for water? I would be prepared for no water at Salt. So, that means loading up at IG for the night at Salt plus a hot Tonto hike to Hermit the next day. If it's hot, you may want as much as 2 gallons.

Water at IG is potable (i.e. no need to treat.) You'll have lot of nice clear water at Hermit. Those Sawyer Mini's take a lot of patience.

The mice can be tenacious at Hermit Camp. I always hike with food protection, something like an Outsak, Ratsack, Grubpack, etc. The mice will get their teeth thru the metal mesh into ziplock bags; I put my food in a silnylon sack and then slip it in the Outsak. Leave your food away from your sleeping area.

DON'T FORGET / RECOMMEND:
– Sunblock, lipblock
– Sunglasses
– Brimmed hat or baseball cap
– Extra line to anchor your tent with rocks; don't count on being able to use stakes at Salt or Hermit
– Ziplock bags for used toilet paper; you have to pack this out

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

Watch the weather reports as you prep. Check with the Forest service as well because everything in the Prescott area (where I live) and north can get down to freezing up until Mother's Day though we rarely don't know it is coming at least 10 days out. That should only be an issue on the rim as the canyon is fairly warm by then and it probably won't be at all anyway. I'd only take a long sleeve shirt and my light puffy if I were doing that trip as well. More often than not I'm hot in April and by May we don't even take pants backpacking. Of course, I'd still keep the pants or some long john bottoms until that mothers day deadline (it sounds weird but I swear, mother nature is like clockwork every year with that one)

I agree on the trash compactor bag not really being required. If the forecast calls for rain, maybe, but at that time of year it is usually not gonna happen and if it isn't a higher than 50% chance, your actual chances of getting any at all is really like 5%, but the desert is unpredictable so we always take rain gear if there is even a call for light showers.

And like Sumi said, don't forget sun gear and wear it. That time of year especially I wear a long sleeve super thin shirt because the long winter can really kill any chance of your skin not burning and the sun is intense already at that point even if it doesn't always feel that hot.

[Ralph Burgess]

Re water –

"It looks like you have 5L total capacity for water? I would be prepared for no water at Salt. So, that means loading up at IG for the night at Salt plus a hot Tonto hike to Hermit the next day. If it's hot, you may want as much as 2 gallons."

I know that caution about water is prudent in the Canyon, but I think this is overkill. We're trying to hike light here, after all. Since Indian Garden, Monument Creek and Hermit Creek are all absolutely guaranteed perennial sources, water management is a judgement call rather than a life-or-death issue on this part of the Tonto in April.

In addition to the guaranteed perennial sources, Salt Creek and Cedar Spring are also very likely to have water in late April. Even if you want to be ultra-conservative and assume that they are dry, the most you need to carry to avoid going off-permit is enough water to take you through dinnertime at Salt. If it were dry, you'd just have to get up fairly early to hike 3.4 miles in the cooler morning hours to have breakfast and top up at Monument Creek.

If you're inexperienced with the conditions, I think the place to be most conservative in your water carry is the hike out up Hermit Trail at the end.

ETA: Just to contradict myself and agree with Sumi on the more general point…. A 2L platypus weighs only 1.5oz. Given the general environment in the GC, I can't remember ever setting foot below the rim outside the winter months without at least a 2 gallon capacity, just in case. So – yes, for safety, take the capacity, the containers themselves aren't heavy.

[Mike Megee]

Wow thanks guy's that is a lot of info to take in. Will definitely pickup at lease another 2L bladder and dump some of the cloths. Hopefully the Backcountry Information Center will know availability of water before we leave and of course keep the eye on the weather.
Thank

[Sumi Wada]

Duh… I forgot about Monument. In fact, if you want to take a small detour, drop your pack and walk down Monument to the river. There are some nice narrows that you can scramble around. There are white-sand dunes and a beach at the river.

Still, it's over 10 miles from IG to Monument. I hiked this stretch just this past October and carried 6+L, with a dry camp at Horn. It was probably around 80deg and let's just say I wasn't exactly throwing water out when I got to Monument. I don't think I've ever seen water at Cedar Springs, though I haven't looked that hard.

Not sure you could pay me to drink from Salt. Had a friend who had the runs for a few days, probably from salt. It has a reputation for being pretty mineralized. If you know that's not a problem for you, then go for it.

Be sure to hike down Hermit to the river on your layover day; the narrows are quite nice.

[Mike Megee]

OK took a good long look at the recommendations and made some of the changes. Cut some cloths, wind pants, replaced Cap 3 base layers for silk weights, and cut the down jacket. I did keep beanie and wind jacket for early morning and sitting out camp at night. Added water carrying capacity to 2G if needed and added a Grubpack. Base weight is now 7.56 pounds. WOW that's great. Thanks again for your comments.
Mike

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