Bleach for water treatment question

[KRS]

Hi everyone I'm trying to figure out the best way to kill virus on the cheap using a Sawyer mini filter. Since the filter gets the all the protozoa all I need to kill to do is bacteria and virus. I was thinking of just using 2-4 drops of clorox bleach per liter from a mini dropper bottle to accomplish this. Would there be any reason not to do this? I see MSR sells SweetWater Purifier Solution that is 3.5% Sodium Hypochlorite, Clorox is 8.25% Sodium hypochlorite same thing.

[Mitchell Ebbott]

The Sawyer Mini takes care of bacteria, so it's just viruses you need to worry about. And you really don't need to worry about viruses, they're very uncommon in backpacking locations. They're more of an issue in heavily populated places with poor human waste disposal systems (aka third world countries).

But some folks need to be extra careful (autoimmune diseases, etc.), and if you're in that category then I'd say a filter followed by bleach is a great way to go. Filter it, add your 2-4 drops, then let it sit for about 20-30 minutes.

[KRS]

Thanks

[Bob Gross]

Lots of backpackers have used bleach as their sole water treatment, and they do that since they know that chlorine is used as treatment in lots of municipal water supplies.

The difference is that municipal water supplies often have people testing the water on intake or output, and they test for pH among other things. If they know the pH, then they can dial in the exact right concentration of chlorine. However, the backpacker doesn't have any idea about the pH, so getting the right dosage of chlorine is impossible. You might get it right by accident, but you might not. If you smell chlorine in the water, you just need to let it air out for a while or else chase it with ascorbic acid/citrus flavoring.

That is one reason why chlorine dioxide treatment has become so popular. It does not depend on the incoming pH of the water. In fact, it works by surging the pH to kill the bugs.

So, using bleach is much better than nothing, but it may not be perfect.

–B.G.–

[James Marco]

Bleach can be used provided you know the concentration. Note that it looses concentration with time.
http://water.epa.gov/drink/emerprep/emergencydisinfection.cfm

[KRS]

Thanks guys, the whole reason I wanted to use bleach is because i can fill a tinny dropper bottle up before each trip with bleach from me laundry room. The beach is never more than a month old in our house so I know the concentration should be with in the right range. I usually have a good source for water while hiking, but there are times when the water is below a popular swimming hole.

[Bob Gross]

"i can fill a tinny dropper bottle up"

It might take more than a tiny dropper bottle if you will be out very long.

–B.G.–

[KRS]

I wish I could be out longer but nowadays it's just long weekends,'3 days 2 nights. I think a small dropper should be fine. I probably wouldn't use it for all my fill ups just the questionable ones.

[Sam Farrington]

Probably a non sequitur.
Note: The seminal "Backpacker" article on water treatments advised that chlorine does not work on cryptosporidia, and that Iodine does.

[John S.]

CDC does not agree with backpacker magazines "seminal" article.

"Disinfection with iodine or chlorine is not effective in killing Cryptosporidium;"
http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

=================
Note: The seminal "Backpacker" article on water treatments advised that chlorine does not work on cryptosporidia, and that Iodine does.

[KRS]

Not worried about Protozoa or bacteria I'm using the filter for that. I just want to kill virus and I seems like bleach is all that is needed for that.

[Chad “Stick” Poindexter]

I haven't done much in depth reading on using bleach… all of the times I have came across it being used (mostly here on BPL) there has always been a lot of conflict over whether or not it really works… It seems that most agree that it works for viruses "ok", but not so well against the bigger guys, which is what I am worried about here in the US. Because of this, I have just steered clear of it…

One thing that worries me about using bleach at all though, is the concentration… We all know how long it's been sitting on our shelf at home, but how about before that? As well, how was it stored before it even made it to the stores shelves, and does it matter? Being that bleach is sold to takes stains out of clothes, it doesn't seem to me like it would have super strict regulations to keep it "fresh" so who knows what the concentration is by the time we actually get it… Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems sketchy… And if I am playing it sketchy, whats the point of using it at all? Wy not just chance it and drink straight from the source? Plenty of folks say they do…

Then, if somehow we do actually know what the actual concentration of the bleach is at the time of use, then we also need to know how much to add… This could maybe be found out a little easier than if it's actually safe to use I think, but something not really talked much about is the size of the drop coming out of the dropper bottle that is being used… Not all drops are equal. For example, a dropper bottle set I got a few years ago from LiteTrail requires 11 drops of AM solution as opposed to 7 drops from the original bottles because the LiteTrail bottles had a smaller drop size.

I just don't know about bleach, and I guess I could take it upon myself to do a bit more digging to find out the truth of the matter, but as so many other threads here on BPL prove, (to me anyway) there doesn't seem to be any "truth" to it…

If I have to use chemicals I prefer to go with either the AM drops, or for even more simplicity (but more money) MP1 tablets. (But, I now only use chemicals if the temps are going to stay below freezing on my hikes… otherwise I happily carry a Sawyer Mini water filter… it removes all we need to be removed from the water here in the US.) But at least there are pretty clear numbers associated with the chlorine dioxide treatment methods (although, these are also still argued) as well as filters, and while we can still never be quite sure of them (we still have to trust the entities that be…), it is a step closer to something that is "factual" and we can rely on. As well, there are also expiration dates on the chlorine dioxide methods that can give us an estimate as to how long it can sit on anyones shelf before it is effectively, no good. (Also, IIRC, there are also expiration dates on bleach bottles too… but again, how do we know what that really means?)

Anyway, I do agree, using bleach would be nice. It's definitely the cheapest option, and it's "easier" to use than AM drops, but in reality, using AM drops isn't difficult either, especially if using a daily premix bottle… (not to mention, bleach is not as easy as using MP1 tabs…) But, for me, it all comes back to it's uncertainty… and as I mentioned, if I am going to take chances, why not just dip and sip? Who's to say which is really safer? Some that use bleach never get sick, some that dip and sip never get sick… then again, some that also use filters and chemical treatments do sometimes get sick, although I feel like it's safe to say that this is usually due to improper filtering/purification technique… then again..

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