Help me lighten up for the CDT

[Matthew Stenger]

Right now I am looking at being just under 14 lbs… not really as light as I would like to be, with the miles I am wanting to do.

Planning on starting southbound from Waterton (hopefully) around June 17th. I am the sort that likes to do LOTS of side trails even when on a thru hike, so I am looking at needing to do about 23 miles per day to clear Wolf Creek Pass by Oct 1.

There will be some sections where I will be carrying 8-10 days of food.

Anyway, my gear list as it stands is in my profile.

Items marked with an asterisk means that I don't have those items now, but would buy them.

Let me know what you think I could do, it would be nice to drop down to 11 pounds, though that seems difficult right now.

Thanks!

[Mike Henrick]

Hey maybe I'll see you! I'm northbounding this year but my longest carry is either 6 or 7 days depending on miles/day. You should check your resupply options, there shouldn't be anything over 140 miles.

If you like side trips check out my interpretation of Tapons route through the Tetons: http://theuncalculatedlife.blogspot.com/2015/01/tapons-teton-route.html

For your gear list the X-therm is pretty heavy and probably too warm. I would also ditch the sleeping bag liner, I could never get back into them after getting out to pee they just tangle. Otherwise it looks pretty solid. You'll probably need an ice axe and crampons for Glacier in June though.

[Matthew Stenger]

I am planning on going from the Tampon Teton Route straight into Skurka's WRHR which he will be posting before I embark, which means I won't be resupplying between Jackson and Lander – a distance I estimate to be about 200 miles. In any case I figure three days from Jackson to Green River Lakes and seven for the WRHR to Lander.

There may be about 3 other times where I will carry 6 – 8.

I do plan to carry the ice axe and crampons, should have mentioned that.

[Matthew Stenger]

"If you like side trips check out my interpretation of Tapons route through the Tetons: http://theuncalculatedlife.blogspot.com/2015/01/tapons-teton-route.html"

I did!

I found Tapon's sight just because I was googling the Grand Tetons and the CDT since it may be my favorite NP.

Then later I found your sight as well. I have the maps you drew downloaded and will print them before my hike. Thanks for that!

Its mainly Yellowstone and Teton that i will be picking up extra mileage. Like a LOT of mileage. I plan of swing up into the northern parts of Yellowstone before crossing down into Teton and of course doing side trails there too. I can't not hike down to Inspiration Point and Jenny Lake after all.

Between those and the Winds, Wyoming is the state I am looking most forward too.

[John S.]

Had never heard of the Tampon Teton Route.

[Buck Nelson]

I'd go the smartphone route and combine camera and cell phone and GPS and much more.

I'd drop the umbrella.

I'm not a night hiker. I'd swap the headlamp for a Photon II.

I'd consider a smaller tube of sunblock.

Just scanning your list It looks pretty good. You've likely listed some things that many hikers simply don't tally up. My CDT load was heavier than normal, too. It's a colder trail.

[Matthew Stenger]

"You've likely listed some things that many hikers simply don't tally up. My CDT load was heavier than normal, too. It's a colder trail."

I forgot to list a compass though!

…and I feel like there is one other item that I can't think of now too.

Edit: "I'd go the smartphone route and combine camera and cell phone and GPS and much more."

The tracphone is actually a really nice LG Android "Ultimate 2." It can do everything a normal smart phone can, including GPS. I plan to load it up with maps and probably buy guthook, but only use it as a backup to my maps.

And the reason camera is listed as luxury is that it is just that – my one luxury. I like taking nice pictures – on my last trek I took pictures with both, and when looking at them from my computer I wondered why I bothered with the phone camera. I want to have the better quality pics from an actual camera.

Edit 2: Trash bag liner – that's the other item I have forgotten.

No idea how that one ended up being deleted.

[Mike Henrick]

Awesome! I just updated the maps earlier this week with some directional notes, two bailout options and a few inset maps that show confusing dirt roads more carefully. This is my last update since I leave for the AZT in two or three weeks, each time I did one I thought it was all done until I thought to add something else. Let's hope I didn't screw up!

Skipping the resupply at Pinedale would definitely make for a long stretch! That's awesome you're going for the high route, I'm saving that for another trip with less of a time crunch. Where do the TTR and the WRHR meet?

[Matthew Stenger]

At Green River Lakes where the TTR meets back up with the CDT you NoBo on the CDT for about 5 miles before hooking a right onto Roaring Fork Trail, which you follow till it ends at the base of Downs Mountain, which is the northern terminus of Skurka's WRHR. You'll have to use a topo to find your own route up the mountain and from there just follow the route that Andrew will be releasing soon to the southern terminus at Wind River Peak, then just follow trails back to Sinks Canyon SP, from where a hitch into Lander should be possible.

After finally resupplying I will make my way back to the CDT, probably bypassing South Pass City. I may just road walk on 300 since that would be easiest. Dunno if that road is paved or gravel.

[Luke Schmidt]

I would question the pad, seems a bit heavy and fragile. I might consider a Ridge Rest or a 3/4 length Prolite. Of course that is just me, such things are pretty subjective and you might have already decided you need the NeoAir to sleep well. Of course if you are camping on snow at first that changes things.

With rain gear I never bothered with an umbrella. I know it might be nice sometimes but its something to consider.

Can you cut those guidebooks down a bit and use pieces of them?

Those ideas would save you some weight but they are dependent on what you personally want. All those items add weight but at certain times they may also add comfort.

[Matthew Stenger]

So I have slept about 7 nights on a Air Core and 3 on the thermarest, once in cold temps – it did keep me cozy and warm.

I slept about 170 nights in my hammock on the AT and that is comfortable as heck. Coming from the hammock the air pad seems pretty nice.

I slept in huts 3 times though and a friend for some reason had an extra Z-rest which I used for sleeping on the wood benches since I didn't have a pad myself – I slept well enough.

So I bought a ridge rest but since its freezing butt cold here in Illinois I have not had a chance to camp with it yet. I bought a regular size since it wasn't much more, but I am willing to trim it down. I do have concerns about using it in very cold weather though, so I may start with the X-therm and switch it out.

Edit: what I like about the X-therm is the packability and comfort, what I like about a torso ridge rest is weight and ease of use.

I have never used an umbrella yet either. Got it for christmas when I was thinking of PCT NoBo. Its weight is slightly off set considering I am using it in conjunction with the "bug net condom" in lieu of a bivy. I also like the idea of it for sun protection and (I guess this makes it partial luxury) I like that I will be able to take photos in the rain with it.

The guidebooks have not been weighed yet. Its an estimate. They will vary by length of section, but I cannot imagine less than 6 ounces. Who knows though. I think I will be re-upping on maps 9 times, which means 10 sections.

[Mike Henrick]

So if you had some serious yogi'ing powers you could arrange for a food drop at green river lakes campground which is on on the far side of the lake. Maybe post on the local craigslist and see if it has any regulars?

As for the umbrella, I love mine, it is seriously the best rain gear ever invented. I can hike in pouring rain, check my maps or phone gps and hike up hill without sweating all while keeping my upper body and waist dry. I also don't use hiking poles so there's that.

[Matthew Stenger]

I do use poles, but there are DIY methods of attaching a umbrella to your pack.

I had thought of trying to see if a Green River Lake resupply was possible, maybe I will try to look into that.

If not it will just be a heavy 3 days out of Jackson.

[Matthew Stenger]

What do you guys think about dropping the rain jacket and pants in WY and NM while carrying the umbrella?

That seems like a compromise for weight but I am afraid MT and CO will be too cold to not have real rain gear.

Edit: also, while I have not sewn the "Bug net condom" yet, I draped some netting over my umbrella an laid under it and it seemed very comfortable – much more so than a bivy has ever seemed to me.

[Mike Henrick]

As an aside – I don't know what your yellowstone plan is but someone on the CDT class of 2015 facebook page mentioned calling up Flagg Ranch which is right north of Jackson and they will accept boxes. I think you have to call first.

I hiked the entire PCT in 2013 with an umbrella and a wind jacket. I never hit any real blowing rain or was in the trees when it was blowing and the PCT is a dry trail. I'm planning on doing that for the AZ and NM portions of my hike and picking up a 2.5 layer rain jacket in CO for the rest of the trail since it seems like the weather is a lot more unstable on the CDT.

If you do hit any rain in NM it will probably be pretty hot out so getting wet won't be as big a deal as the rest of the trail, so I'd say go for it. Your rain jacket won't be waterproof anymore by then anyhow.

I had a friend sew me a bug net condom but I'm not sure if I'll take that or a 4 ounce wasatch bivy. The bivy adds warmth but the bug condom would be nicer at camp and during the hike.

My bug condom ended up on the heavy side, more like 6 or 7 ounces I think but still more useful and lighter than a net tent.

[David Chenault]

I think the Goretex jacket is a very good idea, especially in Montana in June. Last three years running I've come across SOBOs in either Glacier or the Bob lamenting their inadequate rain gear.

I also think doing bigger food carries is a good idea. Seems like there are a number of hitches (like down into Salmon) which are very hit or miss and often cost folks the better part of a day sitting by the road.

The last two years an ice axe or at least microspikes was not a bad idea if you didn't want to road walk around sections in Glacier. It's impossible to say, but the way our winter is going that is less likely to be the case for a mid-June start.

If I can help with logistics at the start (I live in Whitefish) give me an email (dave at backpackinglight dot com).

[IVO K]

Matthew,

Interesting choice of shelter.

Do you have actual experience which suggests that the HG doored CF tarp is a good "ground" shelter for the conditions you are about to encounter?

[Matthew Stenger]

I don't, no.

I already have the tarp and its light and modular, and with the doors it should give me more protection than your typical rectangular tarp.

Plan to get some practice with it on the ground before I hit the trail.

If it does not work I can go with the Notch for an extra half pound.

[Scott S]

I think it would be stupid to ditch your rain gear and just go with an umbrella. Remember, the divide is not like the AT or even the PCT. First, unlike the PCT, no one makes it through a CDT thru-hike without getting seriously wet a number of times. Second, unlike the AT, there are no warm rain showers up on the divide. When it rains, it will get much colder, and when it gets colder, you will want to have extra layers–not just for the dryness (which your umbrella will partly take care of), but for the warmth.

[Cameron M]

Items you could eliminate: umbrella 10 oz; gaiters 3 oz; guides 10 oz (digitize most everything except for essential paper redundancy)
Items that can replaced with lighter items with weight savings listed: lighter gloves 2 oz; lighter down jacket, at least 4 oz; different neoair 4 oz; lighter hiking shirt 3 oz; z-packs pack 12 oz; gerber knife .5 oz

Total weight change: 3 lbs, dropping your total to 11 lbs. The brutal math of incrementalism with financial diminishing returns.

[Brian Lewis]

This list looks pretty good to me overall, but as an earlier poster mentioned, the weight is seriously impacted by adding in crampons and ice axe. What sort of crampons? What axe?

You say you plan to start from Waterton in mid-June. I started mid-June (a few days earlier) in 2011. 2011 was perhaps a bigger snow year (?), but no one was starting from Waterton; the normal SOBO start is from Chief Mountain. Check out Yogi if you already have that guide.

Maps, guidebook stuff: what's "Beacon guide" ? You don't list either Wolf or Ley. Bear Creek maps are great, but I'd still take Ley — Bear Creek build in the fiction that's there's just "one" CDT. Ley recognizes that it's just lots of alternate routes stitched together. And includes margin notes. Bear Creek is easier to read, but if you take just one, take Ley. Optionally print on larger than 8-1/2 x 11 paper (11 x 17 if printing cost isn't too high for you that way). Wolf — I could see leaving Wolf off. Lots of detail, interesting stuff, and once in a great while helpful navigation stuff.

Indeed the weight of paper you're carrying is significant. I think I ended up going with 7 resupply boxes rather than my original plan of 6, in part just to split up all the paper weight a bit better.

In a normal snow year you'll spend more time in snow in Montana as a SOBO than you have on likely any other trail. Doesn't mean you need more clothing than you have, but indeed in Montana and Wyoming you can get fierce hail and rainstorms, which often don't last too long. I personally wouldn't inclined to an umbrella, but I'm a two-stick hiker.

Check with Glacier to see when they put the bridge decking in place. If it means shifting your start date just a day or two, consider that to wait until they have the decking in place. Crossing some of these creeks were by far the fiercest and most dangerous creek crossings I've ever done.

Bear line: my hiking partner and I were forced to borrow bear cans in Glacier. I bought some cord before walking into Yosemite just to follow their rules, but otherwise never used bear line, FWIW. OTOH, I did carry bear spray. Up to you if you want it or not, but I would do that again — grizzlies are different than black bears. We ran into a couple of goat kills that made us hustle along. Only one real grizzly confrontation, but it was memorable.

HOW long do you think your longest food carry will be? And perhaps in a lot of snow? Not clear on your plan there. I had a couple of 8 day carries; going into the Winds I pulled a muscle in my back carrying 8 days of food to start, and that took a while to get pain free afterwards.

No gps, or cell phone as gps? If you can get Ley data on your phone, I suggest that as a backup to map & compass. This trail is rightly reputed to offer navigation challenges. Some do succeed with just map and compass, but if you're out there by yourself, you don't want to get that wrong. Coming out of Colorado I had a day of sleet and snow and very low visibility, with new snow covering track markings. I was very glad to follow GPS guidance in near white-out conditions.

Best wishes for an excellent trip!

[Matthew Stenger]

Brian – I'll be carrying a Black Diamond Raven ice axe. I have yet to buy the crampons, but I am thinking some by CAMP. Currently debating steel vs aluminum.

I am aware I may have to start at Chief Mountain. If I get there and find out from the rangers that I could start right away from Chief Mountain or wait a couple days and start from Waterton I will do that. Time will tell.

A hiker named Beacon has come out with a guide that corresponds with the Bear Creek maps – every marked GPS/data point has a description. It also warns how far the next water is, if it is significantly far.

I do plan on buying the Ley maps when the 2014 ones become available, supposedly in March. I plan on comparing and making notes and carrying both if I deem it necessary. You may not be aware, but this year Bear Creek has a mapset of alternatives as well.

For now I still plan on using the umbrella. Weighed it last night, turns out its not even 8 oz.

I will probably carry bear spray, I should include that in the list.

I expect a few 7 or 8 day food carries, with perhaps one 10.

I am carrying a GPS enabled Android smartphone (the tracfone on the list). I will load it up with the Ley maps, the Beacon guide, and anything else I can think to get.

Actually using s smartphone to navigate during a storm is another reason to carry the umbrella IMO.

Thanks for the reply and well wishes!

[Brian Lewis]

I've got a black diamond raven — it's pretty heavy. Fine if you're doing real mountaineering. On the PCT I had a "sort of" axe with carbon fiber handle; quite light for something that was mostly carried on my back. On the CDT I replaced one of my trekking poles with a Black Diamond Whippet until I got out of Montana. Had to self arrest with it once in Glacier and it did the job fine. Can't self-belay of course, and having one pole significantly heavier than the other seemed weird, but I liked this approach overall. The whippet was a PITA to mail home as it doesn't collapse small at all (two-section pole rather than three).

For crampons, my hiking partner and I used microspikes. We hiked on and off with a couple of people who had on full-on crampons, and they were pausing to take them off and put them back on in places where we just kept the microspikes on. Clearly there could be conditions where you want a real axe and real crampons. I guess for me, I was willing to do a walk-around if conditions got tough enough that I needed those things, and in fact, where we did end up doing walk-arounds due to avalanche risk, the folks with the real axes and crampons were walking around with us.

I would really encourage you to avoid 10-day carries, especially later on after your appetite cranks up. Which it likely will earlier than is perhaps typical hiking in a lot of snow.

If you have an Android phone, is it one where you can replace the battery? I had a smart phone on the PCT and the AT and rarely used it as a gps. I had a "real" gps on the CDT and I used that a whole lot. If you can get yourself a spare battery, consider taking that; you can always mail it home if not needed. Starting out in fairly northern latitudes, check to see if your phone gets the Russian glonass satellites and enable that as it might not be on by default.

If it's a normal snow year, starting in mid-June can be somewhat hairy. I was glad to start with a hiking partner that I trusted. He hurt himself literally the second day in, but hung in there for most of Montana (and finished the trail the next year). I walked a bit more than half the trail alone, and that was fine (great, even), but in the tougher parts it's nice to be with a strong, experienced, and responsible/wise partner if you can arrange it. That trail is pretty creative in finding ways to kick your butt!

[David Chenault]

Missed the Waterton start. Highly recommended, much better hiking than the Chief Mtn alternate. You'll almost certainly need an axe and crampons whichever way you go. Descending Swiftcurrent Pass in June can be pretty technical and exposed if the switchbacks are particularly drifted in. This varies a lot year to year. Best option if this is the case, and maybe even if it isn't, is to hike the Highline to the meadow/basin south of Haystack, make a quick 5 minute bushwack down to the road, and walk the road up to Logan and then down to the Jackson Glacier overlook TH. Very scenic roadwalk. The southernmost section of the Highline was some pretty steep snowfields and is usually closed in mid-June to keep tourists from killing themselves.

Another Waterton alternative is to hike over Stoney Indian Pass and down the Mokowanis valley and pickup the CDT alternate at Liz Lake. Stoney Indian is the most scenic trailed pass in the park, and while it requires an axe and crampons in June, is fairly mellow and safe.

The winter of 2010/2011 was a massive, record-setting one. I was skiing around the CDT south of Marias Pass yesterday and there isn't half the snow now there was this time four years ago. Probably a good year to go SOBO on the CDT, as the chance of the NOBO folks getting caught in smoke and/or detoured by fires seems like it might be fairly high.

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