May 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm #1303069
This has bothered me for a while and I thought I would rant about to see what you think.
There's a LOT of opportunity to unify down jackets/pants with sleeping bags and top/under quilts.
Think of it this way. If you're packing in a down jacket AND a sleeping bag/quit you're packing in duplicate equipment.
I guess the holy grail is to be able to wear your sleeping bag as clothing. I think this COULD be possible but you would need mittens and booties (and a hoodie).
I know some vendors have taken this approach but I haven't really seen it work out well.
I was thinking that for hammock campers, that one could develop a hybrid torso under quilt jacket where the under quilt actually becomes the BACK of the jacket.
Another approach COULD be to wear down pants/jacket to sleep along with down socks and mittens and then pack in a sleeping kit rated at a lower temperature. Say about 45 degrees.
It just seems fundamentally flawed to walk around my camp site being cold while I have a luxurious quit in my hammock. Being able to easily wear it would seem to be a big win.May 18, 2013 at 3:36 pm #1987377
Wearable underquilts are available. Many here boost their bag ratings with clothing,May 18, 2013 at 3:37 pm #1987379
it is until it gets wet … in many environments that aint california moisture is a constant problem … a wet down sleeping bag/quilt is a bery bery bad thing
now some BPLers will no doubt say "i never get my down jacket wet even in the rain" … sure your rain jacket probably fits over it pretty well … but can you be absolutely and utterly certain of protecting a wearable quilt/bag with your normal rain jacket???
if you spend your time in places where constant rain in the shoulder seasons is not a concern, then it should work fine
;)May 18, 2013 at 3:41 pm #1987381
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
When walking around before going to bed, my metabolism is more than twice when I'm sleeping, so I need half as much insulation
I wear half my insulation as a jacket or vest
The other half of my insulation is my sleeping bag
So, no need to wear quilt or sleeping bagMay 18, 2013 at 3:59 pm #1987384
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
Wearable sleeping bags are not for hiking in. They are for around camp in the evenings before you go to sleep.May 18, 2013 at 4:21 pm #1987386
"Another approach COULD be to wear down pants/jacket to sleep along with down socks and mittens and then pack in a sleeping kit rated at a lower temperature. Say about 45 degrees. "
That has already been used by many.
For me it is a Summerlite (32fbag) with LW puffy jacket and pants instead of just an Ultralite (20f bag) for temps down to about 20f.
The two systems weigh about the same but of course I use the former at camp and to me that (in theory) works better than having a wearable sleeping bag/quilt.
More mobility , easier to layer, so for example I often have my rain pants and jacket over the puffy layers at camp.
Aapart from the extra warmth (wind protection as well as trapping my own heat) the rain layer gives moisture/rain and abrasion protection to the puffy layers.
So essentially it is about layering as well as multi use with an extra degree of safety
Of course the trick is not to sweat when wearing down…
In warmer weather my "night" layer (clean Merino Tee and Merino pants) do the job of the winter puffy layers.May 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm #1987387
Wearable sleeping bags are not for hiking in. They are for around camp in the evenings before you go to sleep.
and you could easily get wet in camp … does yr UL rain jacket cover an entire quilt?May 18, 2013 at 4:47 pm #1987392
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
That's true but typically you are hanging out under your shelter when it's raining.May 18, 2013 at 5:10 pm #1987397
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
I see you are from Norcal. That's fine, but there are other places with MUCH worse weather.
> some vendors have taken this approach but I haven't really seen it work out well.
Indeed, and there's a message here. When something does not work very well in the field and is not adopted by many people, there is usually a reason. And the big reason is wet weather.
> fundamentally flawed to walk around my camp site being cold while I have a luxurious
> quilt in my hammock.
Oh, for sure. If it is all fine and dry, wrap your quilt around your shoulders while out. Keep it off the ground and clean.
Those of us who have to handle bad weather use tents instead, and in bad weather we usually get into our tent and stay there! My wife gets changed into dry clothing and into her quilt, and then politely enquires about dinner – immediately. :-)
Trust me, it can be a major hassle getting out of the tent to go to the loo sometimes in the evening – and you do NOT take your dry warm clothing out with you! Ever sat there in the snow with a 40 mph gale blowing snow up your backside?
CheersMay 18, 2013 at 6:21 pm #1987407
" Ever sat there in the snow with a 40 mph gale blowing snow up your backside?"
Yes, too many times. I don't care to do it again! That's why I now live in southern California! ;)May 18, 2013 at 6:46 pm #1987412
1) I found sleeping in down pants and down jacket in my sleeping bag to not be very practical. There's no real way to ventilate if you're warm, and do you really want to fuss with putting on clothing in the middle of the night when the temperature starts dropping? Hell no, I'd rather just adjust my bag in my half-sleeping state. Good idea in theory, horrible idea in practice. Jackets work ok, since it's easier to ventilate your top, but I prefered to avoid the whole mess in the first place. I've tried it before, and it sucks.
2) In the evening, I sometimes draw my bag over my legs when staying up and enjoying the views. Snuggy in the backcountry though? No thanks. My sleeping bag will only be designed as a bag, ever. Again, good idea in theory, terrible in practice. Just too warm when you actually are awake and moving around, doing things, and when static, the bag over the legs works just fine.
3) If it's raining, you're in your shelter anyway, so I don't get the 'Wet' argument. A good book on tape on an iPod Shuffle works wonders during these times. Well worth the half ounce.
PS: take a dump in the morning and bring a pee bottle to bed (or use a floorless shelter, rollover and pee – my preferred method).May 18, 2013 at 6:53 pm #1987414
"Good idea in theory, horrible idea in practice"
Maybe for you , but it works (in practice) for me.
I use the full zipper in my SB, its hood and a merino hat and gloves as well as the zipper and the hood on my jacket for thermal regulation.May 18, 2013 at 7:05 pm #1987418
Do you use pants too? That was the biggest issue for me. Like I said, a jacket works ok, since you can ventilate the top much easier. Pants suck. And you can't go too light on the bag with just a jacket, as your legs will get too cold.May 18, 2013 at 7:30 pm #1987422
Yes I do but keep in mind Merino only above 32f (or thereabout) puffy stuff and merino below.
Here is an example
I had my Kestrell 2500 (weather thingo) on that trip so I know that the temperature with minor wind chill was around 20f when this shot was taken.
I have Merino top and bottom on, then just my walking pants (and gaiters) a mid layer, my WM Flash jacket and my rain jacket on top.
I have warm boots and a Merino hat too.
That night I had the Merino layers ,added my Flash pants, took the mid layer off and slept inside the Summerlite.
The site was relatively exposed to the weather but on and off we had a nice view.
Note that I am using the Moment not really a hot tent by some accounts (works for me)
That is just below Spion Kopje (1835m) Victorian Alps.
We did have clear sky and full sun as well as rain/sleet and snow over the three days.
At the bottom of the mountain we had to cross a river . The usual summer hopping stones were under water so after some scouting I just charged in .
The other two guys were highly amused by me wearing plastic bags over my dry socks on the car ride back home.May 18, 2013 at 7:41 pm #1987424
So what do you do at night when it starts off too warm for pants, but then wake up cold halfway through the night?May 18, 2013 at 7:44 pm #1987425
> 1) I found sleeping in down pants and down jacket in my sleeping bag to not be very practical. There's no real way to ventilate if you're warm, and do you really want to fuss with putting on clothing in the middle of the night
What I've been doing is putting my down jacket on first and it seem find to just throw on the top quilt when I get warm enough.
The pee bottle works WONDERS … I use one every night.May 18, 2013 at 7:44 pm #1987426
I think my plan is to go for down pants to get a full length under quilt. It's a bit more weight but I think worth it…
It's no fun to be cold all night.May 18, 2013 at 7:48 pm #1987427
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> Here is an example
A good example of 'fine weather' in the Australian snow fields…
CheersMay 18, 2013 at 8:06 pm #1987428
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
I have a couple of warm layers that I carry when backpacking. If it is not too cool when I sack out, but if I think that it might get cold during the middle of the night, I take my warm layers into the sleeping bag with me, but I don't actually put them on unless needed. If I wake up in the middle of the night feeling cold, then either one or both layers go on inside the sleeping bag. The advantage of sleeping with them inside the sleeping bag is that they will already be warm if I need to put them on.
–B.G.–May 18, 2013 at 8:59 pm #1987437
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I just wear nylon pants even if it's 20 F, wear a little more on top to make up for it.
I usually anticipate if insulated vest will be needed and start with it on and sleeping bag totally open. Closing sleeping bag will be enough to stay warm.
Occasionally I won't start with vest and will get cold and have to get it vest, hopefully it's convenient.
Also starting with no hat and then putting hat on if I get cold will regulate. Easy to put hat at convenient location to put on when needed. Hat is small.May 18, 2013 at 9:01 pm #1987438
3) If it's raining, you're in your shelter anyway, so I don't get the 'Wet' argument.
if you are in yr shelter then why would you need something wearable … just do what every mountaineer does and bum around in yr bag …
now you DO need to do certain things that are perhaps performed best away from yr shelter … such as cooking in bear country, getting water, going to take a big one, or just simply spending time out enjoying the marginal weather (not all of us run and hide at the first sign of rain) … in those cases you arent going to drag a wearable DOWN quilt out with you in the rain
;)May 18, 2013 at 9:21 pm #1987445
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
I still don't understand the draw to wearable insulation that doubles as your sleep kit. Very little weight is saved and you pretty much just end up looking like an ass at camp.
This is what happens when you try to reinvent the wheel.May 18, 2013 at 9:48 pm #1987456
"I still don't understand the draw to wearable insulation that doubles as your sleep kit. Very little weight is saved and you pretty much just end up looking like an ass at camp. "
or worseMay 19, 2013 at 5:16 am #1987491
> if you are in yr shelter then why would you need something
> wearable … just do what every mountaineer does and bum
> around in yr bag …
A jacket is nice to keep you warm while maintaining upper body mobility for cooking, eating, etc – either under your shelter in the rain, or out and about enjoying the views/sunset.
> now you DO need to do certain things that are perhaps performed
> best away from yr shelter … such as cooking in bear country,
> getting water, going to take a big one, or just simply spending
> time out enjoying the marginal weather
1) I've never bothered with cooking away from my shelter, but I also don't camp in popular spots in the Sierras where there are habituated bears (YMMV).
2) I fetch water before I set up camp, as I arrive. I only need to get water once at camp. A 2.5L platypus at 1.3 ounces does the trick.
3) My pattern is doing a big one in the morning (YMMV).
4) I'd rather not sit in the rain outside. I also use a tarp, so I can spend time enjoying the views from underneath my shelter.May 19, 2013 at 5:41 am #1987494
"That's true but typically you are hanging out under your shelter when it's raining."
That definitely is not true for all of us. I'd never leave the tent on some trips if that were true.
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