Microfleece 100

[Michael Sirofchuck]

I'm looking for the lightest full zip fleece jacket out there – preferably with a hood, but not necessary. When I look online, it's not always clear what "weight" the lightweight fleece is and I think the 200 is sometimes described as lightweight. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Philip Tschersich]

The Marmot Thermo Hoody might fit the bill. Orion's has some in the shop. Also check out the Arcteryx Konseal. Way more expensive and maybe warmer than you want, but it is more likely to suvive a good alder thrashing than most thin fleeces. The hood and built in neck gaiter are nice. Better hurry though, as I might buy their only medium.

[Michael Sirofchuck]

No worries, Philip – I go for a large. As to the alders, I generally bring a lightweight softshell if I know I face serious bushwhacking. Thanks for the tip.

[Philip Tschersich]

I just realized the Konseal is a 1/4 zip pullover anyway.

Happy shopping.

[Sam Buchta]

I just bought a Montbell Chameece Inner Jacket for random purposes (probably for backpacking in certain weather but also just for wearing around). No hood but it weighs in at about 8.33 oz for a medium (weighed it myself, not sure what a large would be but Montbell lists 8.8 oz on their website as the general weight). Pretty thin though, no hand pockets but a chest pocket for whatever. Seems like it would be good for cool weather by itself but needs some more insulation for weather below 40 etc. Only $50 as well vs $175 for Arc'teryx or $135 for the Marmot

2nd edit: Montbell lists it as 160g/㎡

[Michael Sirofchuck]

Yow! The Thermo is $135!

[Michael Sirofchuck]

The Chameece sounds closer to what I desire – a 100 wt full zip jacket, although I would like having hand pockets as well. There are a lot of 100 wt 1/4 zip t-necks out there – I have a TNF TKA myself. It's just that in my perfect world there is a full-zip jacket with pockets and a hood that is the TKA weight of fleece.

[Sam Buchta]

They also have a 220g/m2 with a hood and hand pockets for $80!

Heavier of course, but sounds close to what you're looking for, if a bit heavier weight. Check out the Combustion Fleece Parka. No hands on experience with it but like I said, the Chameece I have seems to be well made

[Steven Paris]

I also got a MB Chameece jacket to pair with a base layer & windshirt for day hikes. That's my solution for "active insulation"; there seem to be lots of recent threads on BPL about this issue, debating softshells and windshells. It doesn't have pockets, fits snug but not tight (could wear a thin L/S top underneath), has a little mechanical stretch to it and seems very breathable. It is 100% polyester and should dry quickly.

I'm not sure it would make it onto a (fictional) long-distance hike gear list, over a Cap4 Hoody. I'm also fortunate that Portland has a Montbell store, where I could drop by and try it on.

[Mike M]

I have both the vest (5.3 oz) and jacket (8.8 oz) (Men's Large)- it's also my go to active mid-layer, comfortable material, has some stretch, lightweight, dries quickly and thus far very durable- price seems much more in line than others I looked it

[Owen McMurrey]

"There are a lot of 100 wt 1/4 zip t-necks out there – I have a TNF TKA myself. It's just that in my perfect world there is a full-zip jacket with pockets and a hood that is the TKA weight of fleece."

I have a lightly used TNF TKA100 full-zip in size Large. It has zippered pockets(with inside drop pockets behind them), but no hood.
It weighs 13oz, but will only cost you a PM with your address.

[Ito Jakuchu]

I like the Chameece from Montbell. In Japan it is the cheapest and lightest weight fleece you can find. I have a vest that is well messed up, and I bought a pullover (⅓ zip) that I cut the arms off of.

I like them for when you don't know if you're gonna need fleece and then you end up needing it. One, for the weight, and two because it is not crazy warm. I'm warmer than average when moving, and colder than average when stopping. So, the Chameece vest is still often usable.
I have never used my Patagonia R1 moving, also not at -10˚C.

Mammut has some grid (Polartec Powerdry) fleece that are thinner than the R4 equivalent, but I only have ⅓ zip version.
Perhaps also something to look into, although probably more expensive.

[Justin Baker]

Man, I've been waiting for months for the chameece vest to get back in stock in medium. It seems like it would be the perfect light active layer.

[Ito Jakuchu]

Yeah, close to the weight of a baselayer. I personally don't find it as warm as even light weight powerdry though. Which is why it is such a nice addition I think. If you are looking for warm I think you can do better. But certainly better than heavier weight base layers.

[Mike M]

funny, I find it slightly warmer than the light grid fleeces (Cap 4, not R1)- Cap 4 moves moisture better, but I think the voids make it a little chillier when stopped vs the "fluffy" 100 weight

[Ito Jakuchu]

Mike,
Could be that mine is just so old and often washed that it became less warm – I have that with a hat too. Have a, very, very, old version and a new one and put on the new one the other day and was a lot warmer.

[Richard Nisley]

Andrew Skurka posted an article to his blog recently where he best summed up the most important criteria for evaluating UL backpacking insulation: "My sole consideration in an insulated garment is its warmth relative to its weight, i.e. its thermal efficiency."

Cold weather base layer materials (B) I have tested.

Active insulation layers are engineered to not require a < 10 CFM shell fabric to prevent down or PL Gold fiber migration through the material. This allows high volume moisture transport, when required. MB Chameece is characterized by having the lowest thermal efficiency of any active insulation layer (AI) I have tested.

Insulation layers (I) have the highest thermal efficiency. The highest thermal efficiency synthetic insulation layer rapidly degrades with use and then stabilizes in the range of a 30-40% reduction from the when-new value. The MB EX Light Anorak is typical of light down insulation layers. When worn under a properly sized windshirt or hard-shell the efficiency ratio increases from the .165 range to the .223 range.

The charts below represent tests I have recently completed using a much more accurate measurement technology than I used in prior years. The Toz value represents the normalized garment weight representing an equivalent size XL hoodie garment.

[Justin Baker]

Richard, do you know much adding a windshirt or rain jacket over a typical fleece would increase the insulation? In my experience it's quite a lot, but it would be neat to have a number on it.

[Owen McMurrey]

Wow. It's kind of gratifying to see your perceptions borne out in numbers.
Throughout the winter I've been switching out a heavier but rough equivalent to Cap4 top, Powerstretch and 100wt 1/4 zips with and without an additional baselayer, and briefly R1 and an older Thermal Pro R2, and all of them with or without an identical outer layer. Because the conditions and activity level constantly varied, it was all pretty subjective, but the way I would rank them based on actual use falls right in line with those charts.
Cool…

Edit: I work in an industrial environment with protective clothing being a constant, and depend on base and/or midlayers to cope with temperature changes, so have been playing with this stuff 5-6 nights per week the past few months.

[Richard Nisley]

Justin,

I measured a 27% minimum increase by placing a windshirt over the ECWCS Polartec Pro (300 weight).

[john hansford]

Apologies for jumping in here with a special request
Richard, I am trying to decide on an insulating layer for a cold/ wet trip. Down would be too risky, and P1 types seem to duplicate the wind shell. Another option I have is an older double sided fleece top by Lowealpine. Do you have a clo value for this type of garment? The fabric weight is about 9.2 ozs/sqyd, and loft 0.3 ins.

[Jerry Adams]

Patagonia Anorak is down
Rab xenon hoody is synthetic (primaloft gold)
the rest are various fleeces

The Rab xenon sure lost a lot of warmth after just two weeks. I wonder what happened to it for those two weeks that caused that much degradation??

Bottom line – synthetic has about half the warmth per weight as the down, and the fleeces are much less than that.

I hate taking fleece because it has so little warmth for the weight, but at temperatures below about 25 F maybe there's no alternative?

[Richard Nisley]

John,

We can use Polartec's specs to answer your LowAlpine question. Your description indicates the garment is a Polartec 300 style garment; style 7593/7594; 203 CFM; and 1.32 clo. Please note that the equivalent Iclo value does not include the boundary air layer of .6 clo; so, the Iclo value would be 1.32 – .6 = .72.

[Michael Sirofchuck]

While I appreciate Richard's information concerning relative insulation values, it is not really germane to my original post looking for a lightweight fleece jacket to use for day hiking (I realize I didn't make that second point clear), so weight it not as big a factor as it would be for backpacking.
When you examine the climate info on Kodiak below, you'll see why down isn't really a good choice most of the time anyway, despite its warmth to weight ratio. I have found that in Kodiak temperatures, a light to mid weight base layer under fleece is comfortable in almost all conditions because 100 wt fleece allows the breeze to help keep me dry while supplying the right amount of warmth. If it rains, a light rain jacket over the fleece works well and good venting allows moisture to escape.

I seek a full zip, hooded fleece simply for versatility in venting, etc. When I backpack in the Southwest, I NEVER carry fleece due to the Skurka maxim of weight to warmth – I am "all about that down"; in the cold, wet climate of Kodiak, other considerations necessarily trump this maxim, although I generally do carry a down bag on 2-3 day trips. Anything longer I carry synthetic.

Kodiak weather averages
Annual high temperature: 46.2°F
Annual low temperature: 35.5°F
Average temperature: 40.85°F
Average annual precipitation – rainfall: 78.04 inch
Av. annual snowfall: 68 inch

[Richard Nisley]

Jerry,

Minor point but, the down Anorak, shown on the charts, was made by Montbell rather than Patagonia.

I acquired 4 brand new Rab Xenon hoodies for testing. One garment is a reference garment, still has the tags on it, and has never been worn. Unlike down, there is a good correlation between garment thickness and the insulation value. This is because synthetic insulation is manufactured at the density that provides the highest insulation value. I have a system that uses a modulated laser beam to measure the average thickness of a garment (mm). I also used an imperial ruler to simulate what the average forum member might detect using that method. The following are the reading for the four Rab Xenon's, the two I compared in the charts (bolded), and what they have been exposed to.

Juicy new = 8/16" – .016
Juicy used = 6/16" – .012 (CA rec use) Not stuffed; not slept in; and hung up between uses
Green used = 7/16" – .009 (CA for 2 wk) Not stuffed; worn for camp chores; and slept in
Brown used = 8/16" – .007 (AK for 3.5 wk) Stuffed daily; worn for camp chores; and slept in

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