Going back to big packs

[Harald Hope]

Lowe Outback 70 (70 liter), a bit over four pounds, great straps/hip belt, simple bag, zero bells or whistles, just bag, straps, twin aluminum stays, top pocket, easily would hold I'd estimate 40 to 50 pounds, and comfortably. Also easy to find used for probably 50 dollars. Solid materials. It's very light for being made out of heavy materials with thick hip belt. I picked one of those up used for cheap a while ago, perfect shape. Doubt I'll use it though, but it's nice to have the option if I need it. Oddly, the new Outback 65 weighs almost a pound more than the old Outback 70.

I just got a Lowe Zepton 50, 2.5 pounds, I had no problem fitting 8 days of food into it, I could easily have gone to 10 days. And I am not an ultralight (UL) backpacker, just a regular Light one (L). That was with a tent and a synthetic sleeping bag too, and an extra set of camp clothes, and a fleece jacket. And a prolite pad and Gossamer gear 1/8 pad. If I really worked at it and didn't need a bear cannister, I think I could go 14 days with that pack, the first day or two wouldn't be super comfortable but after it would be fine. I just noticed that Lowe now has the Zepton XL series for longer backs, so that's a good range of fits too.

Cost, about $100 on sale,, maybe $120. I can't really see any way I'd need more room than this has. 35 pounds is I would say about the max weight it can do comfortably, maybe a bit more for the first day if you really wanted to push it. Very comfortable, 30 pounds were no problem at all, no discomfort.

They make a bigger one too, the nanon, which I think goes to 60 liters. That also comes in an XL size for longer backs, as well as being bigger, but seems to be rated at the same weight, so I'd guess that's a choice for bulkier loads.

Maybe re-evaluate how you are doing your food?

Also, the ULA Circuit main body at 2400 cubic inches is 40 liters (2400 cubic inches in liters: 39.3289536 – when you want to do liter/cubic inch conversions, just type in google: x cubic inches in liters), and I assume because you have to roll up the top some of that is actually not really used. The Lowe Zepton is 50 liters, period. That would explain why I can easily get 8 days of food into it when you are having problems fitting in less. That's also one reason among several I did not get the Circuit by the way. The Zepton top lid inner and outer pockets probably hold 5 or more liters, not sure, but I don't believe those are counted in the total, that's also very useful. If I add in the capacity of putting on some stretch cord to create basically a back pocket, then I could pretend that the Zepton is a 60 liter pack, or whatever, but I don't do that (pretend outside pockets are part of the capacity, that is, I did add stretch cord to the back).

[Mary D]

A Six Moon Designs Starlite with the "optional" stays should be just fine unless your pack weight is well over 30 lbs. The main body plus extension collar hold about 67 liters (4200 cubic in.) as measured by BPL in this article:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/frameless_backpacks_sotm_part4_2011.html

If you look at the articles on lightweight internal frame packs, you'll find that ULA considerably overstates the volume of their packs. You really should read the entire article, which will also help you in choosing a larger pack:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/lw_internal_frame_packs_part_2.html

I have the Six Moon Designs Comet, the discontinued "little brother" of their Starlite. I have carried up to 37 lbs. in it (with the stays, of course). My back, shoulders and hips were just fine, although my knees and feet were screaming! Mine takes a horizontal Bearikade Weekender just barely. The Starlite is enough bigger that it should take a Bear Vault or Bearikade Expedition horizontally.

Now the big question–you mentioned a lot about volume, but not weight! How much weight will you be carrying with a week's food?

[Mark Montag]

I've spent the last five years lightening the essentials backpacking load – just so I could heavy it up with additional photography gear. My multi-night 3 season w/ photo gear is around 34lbs – alpine destination winter w/ photo is around 40+.

I've tried a lot of the internal frame soft packs recommended for carrying 40+ lbs – most are just too heavy – take a look at the Deuter "ACT-ZERO" – the 2011 – 50+15 weights in at 3.4 lbs – you can sometimes find the 2010's 60+10 that weights 3 lbs on E-bay. Be sure you're looking at the "Act Zero" – they also have an "ACT-LITE" line-up.

No zip side or back pockets or any other unnecessary compartments – nice lid pocket, a back and two side mesh pockets and just enough compression straps – adjustable shoulder harness, very comfortable hip belt & back support system. Overall a pack with a very nice ride.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Perhaps I should just stick to the question asked, but I can't help but wonder if there are any alternatives here than going to a big pack. You've gotten quite a few good big pack suggestions already, so I don't feel too bad deviating the topic a little. Please ignore this post if you'd rather not engage on this tangent.

You say you've spent years dialing down your gearlist and that it's 'relatively small in volume now', but admit you've only got enough space for your 3 season kit and 4 days of food in your Catalyst. To me, this doesn't sound like a very dialed down and low volume gear list, but I don't know your hiking locale/situation either. I consider my gearlist to be fairly low volume and dialed down, and I can fit it inside a ULA Ohm along with up to 15 days of food (done this twice).

I don't know your gearlist so I can't offer any suggestions, but perhaps ask yourself what would happen if you took the money you'd spend on a big pack ($200-$300) and applied that inside to reducing the weight/bulk of your gearlist. Maybe a smaller pot or higher end down bag or jacket would free up enough space to add 3 days of food?

[David Ure]

Good question Dan.

BTW, kudos to you for getting 15 days out of an OHM. I can't do that….I always take too much food!

[Art Sandt]

Dan,
I agree there are plenty of really good suggestions in the thread so far, and a little discussion about reducing gear volume might be constructive. I'll try to itemize a few of my gear lists for different conditions a little later for open discussion. In the meantime, do you have your gear list for where you're fitting 15 days of food into the Ohm? What kind of conditions you're using it in? Perhaps just as importantly, what kind of food are you packing?

[Eugene Smith]

15 days in an Ohm!

I need to smoke what you're packing.

[David Ure]

"I need to smoke what you're packing."

But then you'll end up needing to take even more food….; )

[Art Sandt]

Alright, here's my 3-season alpine gear list. With all this gear, I can get a big stuffsack full of food into the bottom of the backpack, which has lasted me 4 days, maybe 5 if I planned it right, and it feels like I'm really cramming everything else into the pack. The sleeping bag is bulky, as are the down jacket and the 2L camelbak. I'd like to move away from bringing a stove in the future, but am not sure if the food I'd have to bring would really be that much smaller.
Pack: ula circuit
Sleeping bag: montbell ss down hugger #1
Pad: thermarest ridgerest (outside pack)
Shelter: MLD duomid (outside pocket), homemade bivy, several stakes, polycro groundsheet
Hydration: camelbak 2L (inside pack), platypus bladder (for back-up)
Cooking: IMUSA 600 mL pot + mini alcohol stove
Clothing: wool beanie, glove liners, 2 pair socks, clean LS shirt, thin long underwear, NB Fugu down jacket
Rain gear: OR Goretex paclite jacket and pants
Misc: small stuffsack with headlight, water treatment, first aid, compass, car keys, and other misc. things
+minor fly fishing gear (usually a reel and two small foam fly boxes in the pack and a 3 wt rod in an outside side pocket), which doesn't really take that much space, but I should include it for the sake of full disclosure

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"15 days in an Ohm! "

To be a bit more clear, it was an 8 day trip where I carried 16 days worth of food because I was carrying virtually all the food for my wife and I. If it was actually me eating it all, then it would likely have lasted about 14 days.

Besides food, I had….
– GoLite Ultra 20 quilt (bottom of pack)
– Big Agnes Fly Creek UL3 (OUTSIDE stretchy pocket)
– Fishing Rod/Reel (OUTSIDE side pocket)
– Clothes: all worn (pants, shirt, windshirt, sun hat) except MB Ex-light vest, 1 spare pair socks, 1 spare underwear (top of pack)
– Misc Gear (headlamp, toothbrush etc….small stuff sack @ top of pack)
– 1.3L ti pot (@ top of pack trying to escape out drawstring closure).

ART,

Here's some gearlist comments:

1) Do you need the polycro groundsheet for under your bivy? I personally prefer to just have a more waterproof/tougher floor (if need be) rather than use a groundsheet, as it's usually lighter and it's definately simpler to use.

2) The NB Fugu jacket looks like one amazing garment, but maybe it's overkill for a lot of your trips? I looked at Richard Nisley's data on this jacket and it's 2.5x as insulating (clo. 6.18) as my Montbell Alpine Light Jacket (clo 2.5) which I consider to be quite luxurious for my colder shoulder season trips. With this said, the Fugu isn't that heavy and it sure looks awesome. I want one.

3) The OR Goretex Paclite jacket and pants are likely a bit heavy and bulky, but it would be a lot of money to replace this. I'm not sure how much weight/bulk we are dealing with here. But if this is a 13oz jacket and 10oz pants then you could cut that in half.

[James holden]

you need to leave things behind … yr gear aint exactly the bulkiest in the world … and the bulkiest items are outside the back anyways (pad and tent)

or get a bigger pack ;)

[Art Sandt]

I'm trying to transition to a gatewood cape, which would lighten up my rain gear, but I need to test it on a few shorter trips before I decide it's OK for a 7 day trip. I've tried using water bottles (in the outside side pockets) rather than the camelbak inside the pack taking up space, but prefer having the convenient hose.

I think you're right that the Fugu is overkill, but it's not that heavy and is plenty warm for late summer nights in the mountains of northern Utah and Wyoming. I've looked at other jackets, but I like to be over-prepared whenever there's a chance that snow will fall on a backpacking trip, even summer snow.

Maybe I need to reconsider my food packing methods, or even my general packing methods. Up until now, I've been putting all my food into a stuffsack, then shoving that into the bottom of my pack, which I can then take out and hang up in a tree to bear bag. Do you or anyone here just pack food directly into the bottom of your backpack? What are your favorite kinds of food to save space?

BTW- thanks for posting your gear list.

[David Stenberg]

Check out the new Hyperlite Mountain Gear Porter pack. The one on the website is 3400 cu. in. but I read (I think it was) on their facebook page that they will also have a 4800 cu. in. version. I am sure if you ask it can be done. Another individual in these forums said you can double up or add an extra set of pack stays to the HMG packs in order to gain more load carrying capacity.

It also has no external pockets so all the volume is in the pack bag itself.

Never tried the pack, but it looks like a good option.

[CW]

I have a Porter and Ryan J. has a modified version of the larger Expedition model. We've both been testing prototypes and suggesting changes for several months.

The last I talked to Mike they're working on getting beefier stays for them, which IMO, is definitely needed. The pack is large enough and versatile enough to carry a real load, but the current stays are the same as those in the Windrider and not capable of the same weights as the pack itself. I'd also like to see them increase the padding on the shoulder straps and hip belt.

[D G]

Hi Chris,
The porter pack looks interesting to me but one thing I don't really like are packs that tower above the level of the top of the shoulder straps. It looks like on the porter pack the top compression strap is pretty high.

In your opinion, how well does this pack work if you don't have it loaded to capacity? Can you still cinch the top compression straps, and can the pack work without the top portion "extended" above the level of your shoulders?

Thanks!

[CW]

I've only carried it filled above the straps once and that was when I was, interestingly enough, portering a students gear on the ULBC trip.

It carried fine, in my opinion, but I'd still like to see more padded straps, belt, and beefier stays.

One thing I plan to do in the future is compress the sides before packing so the load is slimmer and taller. I noticed the pack carried better when I was portering due to the height of the load, even though it was heavier.

This is a photo of me on the ULBC trip without the pack being near full (photo copyright Ryan Jordan):

[Anonymous]

"I consider my gearlist to be fairly low volume and dialed down, and I can fit it inside a ULA Ohm along with up to 15 days of food (done this twice)."

+1

I haven't packed 15 days' worth yet, but I've packed 11 days' of food in my OHM with room for at least a couple more days of food, without using the extension collar. This is for 3 season Sierra packing with a base weight hovering between 9.3 and 10#, depending on clothing carried. I would agree with Dan that maybe a good hard look at your gear might yield the room you need to go with a much lighter base weight and, therefore, a lighter pack. Careful selection and packing of food can also cut down on both volume and weight of food, one area where Mike C and I are on the same page. ;)

[Paul Hatfield]

I really like the framed GoLite packs. Here are actual weights of two samples.

GoLite Quest M green 1406g
GoLite Odyssey M gray/black 1615g

[Art Sandt]

Tom,
Do you have any further critiques for the gear list that I posted? How about what kinds of foods you're packing to save space?

[Anonymous]

"Tom,
Do you have any further critiques for the gear list that I posted? How about what kinds of foods you're packing to save space"

Art,

I missed your gear list post. My bad. Some thoughts: Pad-maybe a Neoair, which is much less bulky and lighter, paired with a GG thinlite, or a Montbell 36" inflatable(less bulky and lighter)also paired with a GG Thinlite; sleeping bag-possibly a WM Summerlite or Marmot Hydrogen, to name a couple. You can order the Summerlite with overfill to take it down a few degrees, IIRC. Either of these, augmented by your clothing, would provide a lighter, less bulky sleep system; down jacket-possibly a Montbell Alpine Light Parka or UL Down Parka would be lighter and less bulky than a Fugu, which is overkill for 3 season use, IMO; a pair of 1 liter soda bottles would be lighter than a Camelback, and would fit nicely in the side pockets of your Circuit. If you eliminate the Ridgerest and stow the inflatable sleeping pad inside your pack, you could easily carry your Duomid on top of your pack, freeing up the side pockets for your water bottles. The fly rod could be carried inside the rolled up Duomid on top of your pack if it is not too long, or lashed on the front using the ice ax loop and retainer with a little ingenuity, or even still be carried in the side pocket behind a water bottle.

Food is long discussion that breaks down along the following lines: 1) Cooked or cold food. 2) Type of food that is palatable to you. 3) How much food is sufficient. 4) How the food is packed.

Personally, I no longer cook my food, but do bring a stove when packing with others to satisfy that almost universal craving for hot coffee in the morning. If I'm going solo, I just take a bottle of water to bed and settle for a warm cup in the morning.

I find a broad range of ingredients to be palatable, if not gourmet, and end up taking granola, Nido, coconut, coconut oil, chocolate, various chips, crackers, sesame sticks, nuts, Hammer Perpetuem, and Starbucks Via. I combine these ingredients into breakfast, lunch, and dinner ziplock baggies, and crush all ingredients in order to reduce the volume as much as possible. They can be eaten out of a baggie with a spoon. Crushing the food is very important if you want to get as much food as possible into a relatively small pack.
I aim for ~135 calories/oz and carry just over 19 oz/day for a total of ~2600 calories of carried food. This is supplemented by 3-4# of body fat to provide the ~4200-4400 calories I burn per day on a typical 8 day trip in the Southern Sierra.

I based my earlier post to you on my experience with kit and food as described above, all of which fits in an OHM with room to spare for trips up to 11 days. Based on this I am pretty certain you should be able to fit everything for a 7 day trip in a Circuit with some adjustments to your gear and food. You might consider experimenting with the food first because that alone might do the trick and save you the cost of buying new gear.

[Art Sandt]

Up until now, I've basically carried energy bars, dehydrated meals, bagels, foil-packed tuna, and dry fruit for my food, and everything has its own packaging that displaces air and doesn't always pack down so well. Changing my food habits to basically bringing bags of ingredients like you do could be a game changer for me. I need to try it. Thanks for posting that info. BTW- what do you do with the hammer perpetuem, nido and starbucks? Do you have a separate bottle for it, or do you just throw it into your normal water bottle? Do you keep the bottle out of your tent at night in case it smells too much like food for bears?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

FWIW, here's what I typically do for food:

Breakfast:
Granola w powdered milk already added in a ziplock + Starbucks VIA
or….
Oats (not instant) with dried fruit, brown sugar, nuts etc (boil for 2 min) + Starbucks VIA

Lunch
I tend to more snack through the day that have a big lunch. So I usually have an energy bar mid morning and mid-afternoon (Larabar's are the best, very few ingrediants, compact, very high calories. They're usually just like dates, cocoa and nuts). Lunch is then maybe hummas (buy it powdered and just add water) on crackers, maybe nutella or almond butter on a whole wheat tortilla. I mostly add a bunch of snacks like pepperoni, chocolate, dried edamame (very good, healthy and high calories) for me to eat as I feel the need.

Dinner
Dinner is tough to do well…easy to do in a mediocre fashion (ie. many of those backpacker pre-packed meals). One dinner I like is some whole wheat penne pasta with dry pesto (ie. basal, dried parmasan cheese etc) and then you add olive oil to that to make it like normal pesto. Add a bit of tuna to that if you want to go luxury. Other dinners I like are homemade chili dehydrated, Idahoan instant mashed potatoes (every though they are terrible for you), fresh fish from a nearby lake stuffed with wild blueberries (did this last month) etc.

[Mike W]

…

[BER —]

@OP

I'll throw this out there knowing that I might get flack as it's not as light as some other options. But since you already like ULA packs, perhaps consider the ULA Epic. Volume dependent on the dry bag you use. I have used mine with a 35L and up to an 80L (usually using the 65L it came with).

[Gary D]

@ Chris

The information you provided on this and one other thread are of interest to me as I am looking seriously at the Porter Pack for longer trips. In a conversation I had with HMG they made mention of their efforts to secure a burlier stay for the pack.

In your opinion is the heavier stay system a necessity or a nice to have feature on a pack designed to carry heavier and higher volume loads?

Does the compression system used produce a comfortable carry when the pack load drops below 15 lbs? For example , the last three days of an extended trip.
Thsnks Gary

[Author]

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