Bathtub groundsheet vs. traditional groundsheet

[Travis Leanna]

Below is an image from BearPaw tents. John over there has several models.

So what are your thoughts on using something like this vs. a traditional groundsheet under a cat tarp? Here are my thoughts:

1. A traditional groundsheet will be lighter (the pictured bathtub groundsheet is 5 ounces made with 30D material)
2. The bathtub groundsheet has the advantage of discouraging water from running onto the sheet
3. A TG is usually cheaper
4. A BG *may* discourage some of the creepy crawlies
5. A BG might help keep your sleeping bag from sliding off and touching wet ground.
6. Splash protection from the BG is pretty minimal, but more so than a TG

Obviously this is BPL, so the inclination is to go with a 2 ounce plastic groundsheet. But a BG has some advantages, no?

Thoughts?

[Bob Gross]

I can't imagine using any groundsheet as heavy as 5 ounces.

If I am heading out in dry weather, then the only groundsheet purpose is to keep dust and dirt off the bottom of my sleeping bag and padding, so I use a 1.5 ounce sheet of thin plastic.

If I am heading out in wet weather or unpredictable weather, then I use a 2 ounce piece of spinnaker fabric that I sewed up with five bathtub corners. This is more durable.

Creepy crawlers don't count because they don't eat much.

–B.G.–

[M B]

Plus it will take another ounce or so of stakes to stake out.

You, me, and a lot of other people who prefer bathtub floors are just scared of getting wet, especially from running water in a deluge overflowing the side of our groundsheet.

I do believe that proper site selection will prevent that. (but what if we screw up?)

Probably just as easy to fall and twist ankle, but not worried about screwing up there and needing rescue, so are we really being logical? Or is it just another fear?

I also think that in most cases, unless you pitch in a drainage ditch, 0.25" ht of a loosely folded edge is as good as 2 ft . Can always take some rocks, or small sticks and fold /roll it over them to make a sidewall ht that is higher if conditions look iffy.

I think its one of those fears you just have to overcome by doing it.

[Bob Gross]

"Plus it will take another ounce or so of stakes to stake out."

Zero stakes, zero ounces. It isn't going to crawl away.

–B.G.–

[Jerry Adams]

With bathtub floor, if water gets inside it stays there.

Why would you want to take a bath while in your sleeping bag?

[Bob Gross]

"With bathtub floor, if water gets inside it stays there."

That's what the sump pump is there for.

–B.G.–

[Travis Leanna]

I guess here's the reason I brought it up.

I'm using an Echo I system with the stock inner. If there are no bugs, I don't really need the full mesh protection. So, are there any conditions that would merit using something that bridges the full inner and a plain, flat groundsheet?

On a side note, I hook my sump pump to my inline filter, so when the bathtub fills, not only does it get pumped out, but I have clean drinking water in the morning!

[Bob Gross]

Plus, if the creepy crawlers do manage to get close to you, the rainwater will serve as a marinade before breakfast preparation.

Travis, we don't know how bad your bug problem is, so it is difficult to say what is needed. I use an Echo I without any inner net.

–B.G.–

[Travis Leanna]

Ugh. Bed bugs, tapeworms, and lice. I just can't seem to get rid of them.

Well, there's a good few months in summer here where I wouldn't go into the woods without long pants/sleeves and bug spray, but once the bugs are gone, they're pretty much gone.

Bob, with your tarp, what are your experiences with wind-driven rain? The high walls of the inner work well. Do you use a bivy?

(Ok, I'll confess. While I am interested in the merits of the bathtub groundsheet, I simply had to post something backpacking related just so I felt better about all the other crappy threads going on that I've participated in)

[M B]

The floor in question I believe uses short aluminum tube "uprights" in sleeves to support the sidewall. It is staked out to hold the sidewalls up securely, as shown in the picture.

[Jerry Adams]

Occasionally at night I'll wake up when some creepy crawly crawls across me, but I just brush it away.

When a rodent crawls across me the brushing action gets a little more vigorous.

That's in the Pacific Northwest where the creatures aren't too obnoxious, maybe in the South you need more protection?

[Ceph Lotus]

The cuben fiber groundsheets made by Zpacks also have the bathtubs edges, and they weigh as little as 2 oz. Also, the owner of Zpacks, Joe Valesko, will do custom sizes.

Link to Zpacks Groundsheets

[Bob Gross]

"Bob, with your tarp, what are your experiences with wind-driven rain? The high walls of the inner work well. Do you use a bivy?"

So far with the Echo I, no rain at all. Now, in the next 72 hours, that might change. As a result, I switched over from my dry weather ground sheet to my wet weather ground sheet. Since my sleeping bag warmth may be marginal, I am taking a home-made bivvy sack, just to be on the safe side.

Way back in my Army days, we used to go out on maneuvers with very little night gear. It was too hot for sleeping bags or tents, so we would just spread our poncho on the ground and then lay down on it. If there were lots of bugs (there usually were) I would spray some DEET around the poncho perimeter and then call it a night. General Pershing would come by and wake us in the morning.

–B.G.–

[Ken K]

If you'd like to try a bathtub floor, consider a MYOG solution. Window insulator kit from Home Depot and a little bit of tape. Voila. $10 bathtub groundsheet.

[Diplomatic Mike]

Proper site selection?

Some times i only have the choice between pitching on a bog or a river. :)

[Jerry Adams]

The bad thing is that sometimes, the terrain that makes a puddle, can be a nice flat place when it's dry. Then, in the middle of the night after it's been raining, it becomes a puddle again. I don't care what type of bathtub floor you have, the water will find it's way in.

Have to look for a "bathtub ring" of fir needles on the ground. Sometimes the ground is pourous enough to absorb water so won't form a puddle. You can kick a route for the water to flow away but I hate disturbing the site for future people.

It can be difficult to tell when there's enough slope for the water to run away or not enough slope so a puddle will form.

[Diplomatic Mike]

". I don't care what type of bathtub floor you have, the water will find it's way in. "

If that was the case, i would have given up camping years ago. Often the ground i camp on is saturated. Sometimes you have no choice but to pitch on ground that is more bog than solid ground. I usually have no problem keeping my sleeping space dry. You get used to dealing with the conditions, and a bath-tub is one thing i won't do without.

[David Ure]

Wow. Some strange commentary here. Yes, of course a bathtub floor, assuming it is waterproof, will keep out ground water. In fact, I once found myself 'floating' on one. But completely dry.

As far as pegging – yes, this CAN be a necessity. With the comment that it won't run away is correct but it can very well blow away depending on shelter type.

Trekking in SH&T storms often has confirmed the necessity that a couple of extra ounces to stay dry is worth its weight in gold.

Theory and reality are too very, very different things….

[Travis Leanna]

Ken, I might try a MYOG to see if it is worth it. I could rig up something cheap with some thick 3 mil garbage bags I have.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Tried the Home Depot heat shrink groundsheet & tape idea. Absolutely no durability. Threw it away after testing it before I even went on my next trip.

Gonna get a Cuben Lite custom groundsheet from Z-Packs.

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