RiRi Aquazip vs Std YKK Waterproof zippers?

[Aaron Reichow]

Just a random thought- why don't we see more jackets and packs using the RiRi Aquazip in place of more traditional waterproof zippers? The only bit of gear I've used the Aquazips on are the GG Nimbus Meridian, but have wondered why you don't see them around more- I'd love to have them on my rain shell in place of the PIA waterproof zippers you usually see…

Aaron

[William Johnsen]

I've always thought the same thing. Patagonia made a jacket (stretch ascent) that used it and it looked a lot better than the YKK. Maybe cost? Or do they sign agreements w/YKK similar to the Gore kool-aid?

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Great question. I don't think the answer has anything to do with exclusive brand agreements. YKK makes virtually the same zipper as the RiRi AquaZip. They call it the YKK Aquaseal and it's been around for several years now…at least 3 years.

I think the real question, is why don't we see more of these waterproof toothed zippers that are significantly better than the urethane coated zips that are so prominent today. These new toothed zippers that seal with rubber between the teeth are much better because they are truly waterproof and they zip up with much less drag, like a normal zipper.

I think eventually these types of zippers will totally take over and the answer to why we don't see more is simply because the industry is really slow to change. More specificially, it seems that:

1) A lot of customers may not understand these are a waterproof zippers, and if they do, they probably don't realize why they are better.
2) YKK and RiRi are likely charging more for these zippers since the volumes are low and it's a new product.
3) People associate the look of a traditional backwards urethane coated zipper with serious outdoor gear.
4) There may be some issues in terms of product availability. Perhaps these zippers do not yet come in a sufficient range of colors, lengths and sizes.

I know Helly Hansen has been using the YKK Aquaseal zips in their top line (Odin) for a few years. Westcomb is using the RiRi ones and Arc'teryx is starting to use these (not sure what brand). In a year or two we'll probably see these in most high end coats. Once the look has been established as 'cool', then costs will drop and these will come on most outdoor apparel. As RiRi/YKK start to make these in smaller gauges then they will take over the lightweight (ie. rain jkt) market too. Right now I don't think you can get them smaller than a #5.

[Paddy Wacker]

The Uk company CRUX uses riri zips on their shells.

http://www.crux.uk.com/en/crux_clothing_shell.php

[William Johnsen]

Yeah I wasn't sure about having to sign agreements, I was just thinking out loud. I'd love to see better zippers being used. The YKK vislon ones on some of the Arcteryx jackets are an improvement because the sliding happens on the plastic teeth and not on the coating but don't seem as robust as the Riri (it's hard to find a decent picture of the aquaseal to see if it's the same, but I don't think it is). Are those the ones you're talking about (on the Alpha SV and LT?)

[Aaron Reichow]

Ahh- I wasn't aware that YKK had their own version. I love the feel of the Aquazips- so much smoother than regular PU waterproof zippers and less prone to catch on corners and kinks. Seems like it'd be especially handy in a shell. Look forward to seeing them pop up more and more. I don't have any links handy, but I did look around a bit a month or two ago for the RiRi Aquazips for a project I was planning. Seems like DIYers can buy them, haven't looked around to see if the YKK Aquaseal zippers can be purchased as easily.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Patagonia is using the RiRi Aquazip on their top of the line hard shell this year:
http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-stretch-element-waterproof-jacket?p=83253-0-609

Here is the best picture of the YKK Aquaseal that I could find. I've played with this zipper in person and it's low effort like a regular zip and it uses rubber between the teeth to make a tight seal.

EDIT:

Here's a few more YKK Aquaseal pics:

[Trill Daddy]

The Patagonia Stretch Ascent has a RiRi Aquazip on the front main zipper, as well as the Westcomb Vapor FX jacket.

RiRi zips are ALOT more expensive (~$40 for the zipper alone), and YKK has recently incorporated a similar design to their higher end zippers (main zips on the Arcteryx Alpha LT and SV series).

Check em out, hope that helps

[William Johnsen]

Thanks for the photos of the aquaseals, they're definitely different than the zips used on the Alpha Shells.

(I noticed that Arcteryx also changed the PU coating on the normal zippers as well, hopefully it's more durable) For as much as companies are charging for higher end shells a $40 zipper should be included IMO.

A couple of other thoughts, do the aquaseals (and similar) hold up if folded/packed repeatedly? I know that some waterproof zippers require lubrication/maintainence, maybe the companies don't want to hassle with that?

[Aaron Reichow]

$40 for the zipper alone?! Wow, that's nuts. That said, I'd like to see it on any shell over $250. Considering the costs of materials, design and manufacture, there's definitely no reason for Arc'teryx, etc not to have it on all of the high end shells… unless you're just paying for the logo.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Regarding durability, I was the warranty guy at a Helly Hansen store for a year or so. I never saw any of the YKK Aquaseal zips come back with problems. I did see a few coats with Aquaseals come back after a lot of use and the Aquaseal zips always looked/worked well as I recall. I definitely saw some regular uretek coated zips come back due to the uretek coating wearing out/peeling off.

[Javan Dempsey]

Anybody got a non-wholesale source for either of these zippers?

I'd like to play with some.

[patrick walsh]

I would think the Aquaseal zip with the coating would wear out over time and maybe not very much time at that? Not sure what my new Rab Alpine Pullover has on it but it sure is no the rubber faced one. I wonder if it is waterproof at all? It does pull slow but not half as slow as one of the rubber faced zips.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

It won't. Nothing rubs on the coating like it does on a normal waterproof/uretek zip.

The Aquaseal is a toothed zipper that has rubber between the teeth to form a tight, waterproof seal. Then the fabric that holds the teeth is coated so it's also waterproof, but it's different than a uretek zip and not a weak point since nothing rubs. As mentioned, until about a year ago I was a warranty guy for Helly Hansen and I never saw one of these zips come back which says a lot.

[Rüdiger Flothmann]

You can order AQUAZIPS directly from the manufacturer riri in Switzerland.

This one is in german, but they should have an englisch Website also, but it doesn't work right now.
Check: http://www.ririmayer.ch
International Delivery: http://www.ririmayer.ch/pages_de/Versand_export.html

Infos (all Colours) http://www.ririmayer.ch/Lieferprogrammordner/03%20HighTechRV/pages/2-40-AquaZip-6.htm

YKK Aquaguard (not the same as Aquaseal!) is available here: http://www.extremtextil.de or here:
http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/default.php?cPath=31_53

I wrote a short blog entry on that topic, but it is in german. ;(
http://ich-liebe-berge.ch/WordPress/2011/08/794/

From Norröna: YKK AquaSeal® zipper
AquaSeal® zippers are a recent addition to YKK’s watertight and water repellent product line. They are perfect for all sorts of gear where water and air tightness is a must. Smoother and more flexible, they offer optimum protection thanks to the film-coated tape and the innovative zip element mechanism that seal the zipper completely. This is the first truly waterproof zipper provided on Norrøna products.
Used in their trollvegen series for summer 2012. But this is not lightweight at all, it is workwear.

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