Nov 6, 2010 at 1:37 pm #1265198
I just saw a thread on gear swap where someone ordered a Borde Bombe from Germany for $180.
I'm wondering how hard it would be to make one. It's not rocket science. Or at least, I sincerely hope it doesn't become rocket science. :-)Nov 6, 2010 at 2:40 pm #1661740
Everything is cheap and easy to make and sell till "one" tries to do it himself…
FrancoNov 6, 2010 at 3:26 pm #1661748
I wouldn't sell one. Too much for the liability insurance. ;-)
I found this japanese page.
Looks like the owner shortened to stove to fit his favourite pot.
Simple enough device.Nov 6, 2010 at 3:55 pm #1661752
Making one would most definitely become rocket science, whether you intended to create a rocket or not.
The Borde is a notoriously unsafe, dangerous design. I carried one in the 1960's – they were relatively safe at very low temperatures. The cost then was about eight dollars or so. $180 for one is unbelievable.Nov 6, 2010 at 4:18 pm #1661757
Maybe a damp cloth to put over the reservoir to slow it down at warmer temps?Nov 8, 2010 at 7:30 am #1662143
Quite a few home made Borde type stoves here:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/left/mono/out/st-cg/pakricon/pakurikon.htmNov 8, 2010 at 7:57 am #1662152
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Okay, what is the advantage of a Borde Bombe type stove?
It doesn't look particularly lightweight.Nov 8, 2010 at 8:33 am #1662158
@dsmontgomeryLocale: one snowball away from big trouble
Not surprisingly, I'm on the same page as you are, Rog. I was just talking to my wife the other night about their simple (if somewhat terrifying) elegance. They are pretty lightweight at 9oz, only beaten for a liquid fuel stove by the Handy Camper type at 7oz. But, unlike the Handy Camper, the jet is adjustable and largely self cleaning.
Finding that optimal operating pressure and temperature (and keeping the stove there) is obviously the key. That becomes even more critical as one contemplates lighter materials. :)Nov 8, 2010 at 9:44 am #1662182
The "Handy Camper" is a simple coil stove, yes? Am I thinking of the right one? From what I've read those are really dangerous since there isn't a way to adjust them.
The Borde works on heat feedback. If it overheats, it can detonate. Steel shrapnel and a fireball of flaming gasoline. Yipes! BUT the Borde's flame is adjustable. You have to stay on top of it — constantly. Don't lose the control hook! The control hook is a entirely separate piece of metal. If you lay it down somewhere in the dark while you're cooking…
The MSR Simmerlite is 8.5 oz and I think far safer although the Borde Bomb does have a pretty high "cool factor". :)
HJNov 8, 2010 at 11:30 am #1662217
@herman666Locale: Northern Virginia
Both Handy Camper and the Bomb are feedback stoves. Feedback can be good if it's negative. I.e. the hotter it gets the less fuel is fed in. Negative feedback will come into equilibrium giving a more or less constant heat output that is determined by the amount of feedback.
Unfortunately, that isn't the case here. The feedback is positive. The hotter it gets, the higher the fuel pressure. Thermal runaway is a real possibility unless there is some interrupting mechanism.
I'd want to know a lot more about the design before I'd trust either of these stoves.Nov 8, 2010 at 1:19 pm #1662258
Keith you are right, positive feedback. The control mechanism is you and your adjuster hook to screw the flamespreader/jet needle down if it gets lively. The original design ws for alpine winter mountaineers, and they do run hot below the snowline. There's no reason you couldn't make a less fiery on though.
A damp cloth onto the tank would calm it down too.
The optimus 8R used a rotating heat shield to control feedback.
I like my MSR whisperlite too.
Can anyone identify this feedback stove. It's similar to a Rogers U.S. military model but the burner head is different it has slits rather than jet holes. It's a great stove, very quiet in operation unlike the 'ramjet' noise you get from most gasoline stoves and is very efficient. I picked it up at a boot sale years ago for £3. Came in a tall aluminium pot with lid. Bargain. Heavy though!
Devin, lightweight materials…. with gasoline… Hmmm, let me think… NO!
Maybe with alcohol though….Nov 8, 2010 at 2:58 pm #1662281
> Unfortunately, that isn't the case here. The feedback is positive. The hotter it gets, the higher the fuel pressure. Thermal runaway is a real possibility unless there is some interrupting mechanism. (emphasis added)
That's the point I was trying to make. With the Handy Camper, there is no way to regulate the heat feedback. With the Borde Bomb, there is a way to regulate the heat feedback, albeit manual. One must turn the flower-like "petals" on the burner with a long-handled hook in order to decrease the flame. The Borde bomb has something of a "cult" following. The Handy Camp coil type stoves are, thank God, not even made anymore.
As for making a home-made stove that runs on Coleman type fuel or the like? Not me. Maybe if I were a machinist AND knew a lot about stoves, but otherwise no way. Heat + gasoline = BOOM!
HJNov 8, 2010 at 3:05 pm #1662286
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
"unlike the 'ramjet' noise you get from most gasoline stoves"
Lots of white gas stoves are called "plate roarer." The stream of fuel vapor shoots upward, hits a burner plate, and then is swirled outward violently, which makes the loud sound.
That's a multipurpose item. Stove + breakfast bell.
–B.G.–Nov 8, 2010 at 5:08 pm #1662318
"Maybe if I were a machinist AND knew a lot about stoves"
Hi Jim. As it happens I am a time served machinist. I know enough about stoves to think twice before constructing a self pressurizing stove to run on gasoline too.
It's not that difficult though. But 9oz is too heavy, so I'll carry on playing with alcohol for now. I have an idea for a borde type stove running on acohol which could be made from lighter materials.
:-)Nov 9, 2010 at 6:26 pm #1662688
> As it happens I am a time served machinist.
Hi, Roger. Didn't know. Way cool. Almost your civic duty to experiment then. :)
What would be really cool would be a Ti Borde Bomb. Just as soon as I win the lottery, I'll finance one. Sigh. Why aren't any Saudi Arabian princes ultralighters? Oh, for their cast offs! :)
The stoves that I've seen that look interesting are alcohol jet stoves. The lower section of the stove houses a flame that heats the upper section. The upper section holds the main alcohol supply. The heated alcohol produces a good deal of vapor pressure which shoots out a jet whereupon it is ignited and burned. Probably not the lightest possible arrangement, but perhaps the jet would burn more fuel per second than other non or less pressurized alcohol stoves and therefore provide more heat in a shorter period of time. In winter, perhaps such a stove could be used to melt snow. One of the main drawbacks to an alcohol stove in winter is its painfully slow rate of melting snow for water. Most people abandon their alcohol stoves and switch to either an inverted canister (or other liquid feed LPG stove) or white gas stove. Perhaps an alcohol jet stove could extend the temperature range in which an alcohol stove would be practical to use.
Most of the alcohol jet stoves I've seen have been sort of tall, spindly affairs made from 12 fl oz (355 ml) aluminum beverage cans which are not stable. Something made from wider, shorter aluminum containers might fit the bill better.
The lower half of the stove could be constructed from something with a fairly light gauge, such as an aluminum cat food can,
but the upper portion would need to be a of a bit heavier gauge material in order for it to reliably contain the pressure. Perhaps an empty 170g Powermax fuel container could be used for such a purpose.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
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