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wondering about dry baking using an epicurean stove and a kmart grease pot
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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › wondering about dry baking using an epicurean stove and a kmart grease pot
- This topic has 18 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 6 months ago by Matt Swider.
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Sep 1, 2016 at 10:21 pm #3424124
Do I risk damaging the pot if I expose it to only the very low simmer / dry bake flame of the epicurean type esbit burner?
I have done a bit of dry baking using the grease pot inside of a stainless steel pot, but I have not exposed the thin aluminum of the grease pot to a flame without water in it. I know it is common to put a small amount of water in the pan during dry baking, but I would not want to worry about the water all evaporating and then having a dry pan that can’t take the heat. I suspect it is not a problem, but I’m not ready to risk my pot and just try it.
As I type I can imagine that water evaporating off the bottom of the pot, condensing on the lid, and running back down to the bottom could serve as a very effective way to prevent overheating, but I am still interested in if folks have tried this (with or without water).
thanks, Matt
Sep 2, 2016 at 7:58 pm #3424259Sep 2, 2016 at 8:22 pm #3424263I have dry baked using the epicurean stove under a Ti Evernew pot and had no issues. Did not use any water, otherwise it is steam baking. I simply placed the aluminum baking pan with the muffin mix directly inside the pot. As long as the baking pot is sitting directly in the pot, on/against the bottom, the heat will transfer through the pot, through the baking pan, and into the food. Works great.
Sep 2, 2016 at 9:02 pm #3424267Thanks for the note. My research showed the most common approach is a titanium pot on the outside, which can take much higher temperatures, and an aluminum pan on the inside for good heat conduction to the baked goods. I was wondering about aluminum on the outside, as that is my solo/2 person setup.
Sep 2, 2016 at 10:09 pm #3424274Hi Matt. I too use titanium so I can’t help you. The good news is that Jon Fong of Flat Cat Gear is a regularly contributing member here at BPL. You may want to hit him up with a PM and ask his thoughts about using an aluminum pan.
Sep 2, 2016 at 10:13 pm #3424276I hoped that when I posted the link above that the video would be available to see, but I am not so computer savvy. Anyway, that link is to a Jon Fong video baking in a grease pot over an esbit burning epicurean stove. So I answered my own question, but did not make it very obvious with the link I posted.
thanks for taking the time to suggest contacting Jon, he is definitely a wealth of dry baking information.
Sep 3, 2016 at 12:00 am #3424285Actually its Titanium -not Aluminium- that is more likley to be damaged by heating the pot dry.
Warpage and heat discoloration are common with Ti pots run dry.
Aluminum will be fine.
Sep 3, 2016 at 6:04 am #3424293Aluminum will anneal at alcohol temps. This means, for a pot, the bottom will get softer. Otherwise you will be fine.
I do a “fry/bake” with mine all the time. I add a little olive oil and smear it around with my fingers. Then set up the old SVEA on as low as it will go and place the pot on the flame. Immediately, drop in the dough (whatever you want to cook) to about 20% of the pot capacity. More and it could puff the lid off. Put the lid on and cook for about 15min. Then I take it off the stove and put my hat over it for another 15min. Then I put my hat back on and let it cool. I can often drop it out of the pot by simply spreading my bandana on a rock and slamming the pot onto the bandana. Sometimes I have to dig it out with my spoon.. Sometimes it is a little overdone (burned a bit), sometimes not. It is really more of an art than a science.
Apple cakes, chocolate cakes, biscuits, bannocks, etc all work pretty well. Never tried pizza. I usually make a couple over an evening or long rest stop. They will be for the next day with stew or for breakfast/lunch. (‘Corse sometimes they don’t make it till supper… I just munch them as I hike.)
Sep 3, 2016 at 7:11 am #3424296sounds yummy
Sep 3, 2016 at 8:26 am #3424300Everything stated above is correct, an aluminum pot will work fine and it will anneal over time. The Epicurean stove was designed to output a low (100 watt) heat to prevent war page or oil canning. That heat level will still create some heat anodization spots as the ti pot will still get to 650-850 F. Aluminum will dissipate the hot spot a bit.
When using an aluminum pot, you can actually go to higher temperatures to get a faster baking time. I use an aluminum Open Country 2 qt pot that cost me $20 for dry baking. Using a Kovea Spider, I can dry bake a 5″ muffin in less than 30 minutes.
Jon
Sep 3, 2016 at 1:25 pm #3424330So I gave the epicurean stove and grease pot a trial run today. I want to experiment with reducing the amount of specialized gear for baking, so I gave putting bisquick with some additional flavorings directly in the grease pot and in my home made cone. 1 1/2 cups of bisquick, 1/2 cup water, 1/8 cup each of dried milk, shredded cheese, and shelf stable bacon. 25 minutes on the heat, then set for 15 minutes, then threw it in my bike bag and rode to the beach. Probably started eating it over an hour after the heat was removed. Very good. I think it could have used 5 minutes more on the heat, but still very good for a first attempt. Bottom was definitely more done than the top, but not burned. I will be experimenting with cookies and such for sure.
Sep 3, 2016 at 2:00 pm #3424337One thing I forgot to note in the post above was how remarkably clean my pot was. I have used the epicurean stove several times with couglan’s tablets and I always have black soot. Most of the previous times have been just boiling water, but I have done a couple baking experiments also. The only other time I have seen esbit type fuel burn this clean is when I used the focus fire 14 that Jon makes. I did knock the ash off the fuel part way through the burn, perhaps that helped, not sure. Hope it continues as I continue to experiment with baking.
Sep 3, 2016 at 3:42 pm #3424342When you are dry baking the bottom of the pot gets very hot – this vaporises most of the muck off the bottom of the pot. When you are boiling water, the base does not get so hot and the muck condenses on the pot.
Cheers
Sep 3, 2016 at 4:08 pm #3424345Ah, that makes sense. Nice.
Sep 4, 2016 at 6:19 am #3424395in particular, the Epicurean Stove will always burn cleanly (Esbit) without leaving soot when used in the simmer mode: dry baking or boiling. So cleanliness is independent of pot temperature.
in the high mode, the Epicurean will leave a wettish, brown soot and not the typical powdery black soot (same with the Focus Fire 14). This has to do with the burn efficiency.
Sep 4, 2016 at 7:17 am #3424404Matt, Yup. Like I say, more art than science. It works very well without any insert. The old SVEA has a fairly high simmer, even on the lowest possible setting. about equivalent to an alky stove. Esbits burn a bit slower. So, I am guessing that this accounts for the timing. Did you use a bit of olive oil? This seems to help with heat transfer and anti-sticking.
Sep 4, 2016 at 7:44 am #3424405Hi James, I did grease the pan with olive oil. My esbit stove cook very low, so I suspect that is part of why it takes longer Longer is no big deal for me. Later in the day I tried cooking brownies, but left out the egg. I think that was a big mistake. Likely cooked too long also at 40 minutes for 1 cup batter in a 5 1/2 grease pot. Live and learn, I will experiment some more today being sure to use the proper ingredients.
Sep 4, 2016 at 8:50 am #3424410Ha, yeah, have done similar more’n once. Playing with it at home will help. But there is really no good substitute for being out, in all the changing conditions, to give you a sense of what you need to do. If you get too much, you *might* have to take it out and flip it. This will also prevent burning, which is more of a problem with the higher heats of an alky/SVEA stove.
Sep 4, 2016 at 2:07 pm #3424442Since this has drifted to a cooking thread rather than a gear thread, I started it up in the food and such area here
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