UL double skin tent for Scotland

[Eddie Brennan]

Hi All

Looking for some guidance and to narrow down the focus of my search.

Tents I currently have:
Vaude Taurus UL (2 person, 1.9kg, 2006 model)
Tarptent Moment DW (I person) without the additional guy points on fly hem

What I am looking for:
Location for use: Scotland, especially ridges and mountain summits. Midges mean inner essential.
Budget: £300-400
3/4 season: not needed to cope with heavy snow but strong winds & rain. Have issues with both tents in high winds. Taurus tail flexs and can flatten. Wind pulled out end stake on Moment DW.
Space: enough for a 5’8″ man and a medium sized dog. The Vaude is a nice size for this but the Moment DW too small.
Smallish footprint
Not too many pegging points (ground often tough / rocky)
Weight: circa 2 kg, ideally below
Pitch: preferably integral or, if not, fly first. No inner firsts!
Should handle condensation well (never any an issue with my current tents)

What I have looked at:
Lightwave t10 trail – too small
Lightwave t20 trail – a consideration but 2.3kg and lack of reviews online
Nigor WikiUp 3 (w half inner) – largish footprint? No. of pegging points an issue??
Luxe Hexpeak – same as for the Nigor. Seems Nigor higher spec / better ventillation
TT Scarp 1: Space may be an issue as well as carrying the cross-poles
TT StratoSpire 1: a potential – stated as coping well with high winds. Looks big enough but not sure. Would welocome comments on its footprint / set up and wind tolerance. I would need to buy poles as i don’t use walking poles.
Trekkertent Phreeranger: would welcome info on specs, especially footprint & dimensions, as well as wind tolerance. Weight looks good at 40D for UK conditions.

I would be interested in the Trekkertent Edge but its not in production with a replacment still to be announced.

The new Vaude Terra Hogan looks good and, while not UL, is 2.2kg. However, its new and no onlie reviews, so wary.

Many thanks for any help.

[Richie S]

I would consider something like a Duomid or Trailstar and inner net. Seem to be v popular with people in your situation. The weak pound may present an issue though.

[arien g]

A pyramid/tipi type tent with net would be my recommendation as well. The only issue is that they are inflexible in the relative positions of the corner stakeouts. This can be annoying in rocky or otherwise intransigent ground.  Some solutions are to use heavy rocks as anchors, or to stake out the corners as far as you need to to find good ground and then put a rock on the guyline to give an appropriate length,

Not sure if these can be described as having few pegging points. You will generally need 6-8, but that is pretty standard as far as shelters with good wind performance go.

The footprint of mids can probably not be described as “smallish” for the usable internal volume they provide either.

 

 

[Brad Rogers]

The Tarptent Scarp 1 seems well liked in Scotland and some say it is more wind worthy than the Atko.  I have never slept in one, but it is supposed to be a pretty large tent for one – in fact I hear you could sleep two in a pinch.

There is a video of an Atko in something like 77mph winds (they have a wind meter).  It isn’t pretty, but survives and it has no crossing poles so you could probably get by without them.

blogpackinglight has a couple of nice writeups on the Scarp (and a couple of other tents) that might interest you.

 

 

[Nick Gatel]

Yes, seems a lot of people over there are partial to the Atko, Scarp 1, and TrailStar with an inner for midges, whatever those are :-)

Lots of good information on Chris Townsend’s website and he has used them all.

[Brad Rogers]

I know the  Trailstar is popular there and supposedly bombproof in wind, but since he does’t carry trekking poles I didn’t think it would be a good choice.  Of course you could always by a stout aluminum or CF pole to use with it.  It might still be lighter than a Scarp or Atko.

[Nick Gatel]

My Trailstar with 9″ Easton stakes, 3mm guylines, .600″ carbon fiber poles, and seal sealed weighs 30 ounces. I don’t have an inner.

My Scarp 1 weighs 64 ounces, including the 12 ounce optional crossing pole and Easton stakes.

[Eddie Brennan]

Thanks all.

Have sent Chris Townsend a message via his blog.

So much choice just makes it hard!

[arien g]

Brad, the dedicated CF pole that MLD sells for the trailstar weighs ~3 oz, is very strong, and folds to a ~16″ or so packed length. No matter how you cut it, a silnylon trailstar with net and CF pole, even in will be half the weight of e.g. a Scarp or less. A single pole in the shortest size (appropriate for a trailstar) is ~60 bucks though. A trailstar + net by itself probably already pushes close to your 400 GBP limit, before any taxes, shipping, or duties. A Scarp will probably be cheaper, although an Atko won’t be.

Probably the decision of a trailstar/mid vs. much heavier shelter like a Scarp or Atko should be based on other considerations (shelter height, usable interior volume, full floor, freestanding capability, pitching ease in windy conditions, ease of cooking inside, pitching ease on crappy ground, cost, wind resistance…). The pole thing is pretty minor.

 

[Don H]

Trekkertent Stealth 2. Made in Scotland for Scottish weather. £ 240.00. 28 oz. http://www.trekkertent.com/home/home/7-stealth-2.html

[Brad Rogers]

That Trekkertent Stealth 2 looks very similar to the old Gossamer Gear SpinnShelter.

[Catherine Harley]

Ask the same question on –  http://www.trek-lite.com/index.php

Currently the best UK site (IMHO) for UK related lightweight backpacking discussions and info. and a friendly set of folks too. :-)

 

[R]

Criteria: “Not too many pegging points”

Complaint: “Wind pulled out end stake on Moment DW.”

These two are inherently at odds with each other.  You can’t get any less than two stakes, which is what the Momentum has.  Would you rather place a greater number (6?) of ‘normal’ ground anchors, or two burly ones?  If the wind direction is constant, maybe just the windward anchor has to be bomber.  It’s not too hard to secure one point with multiple stakes if necessary.  Pitching in a location that lets you anchor one end to a tree, root or rock really means you only have to create a single ground anchor.

If this is your only complaint w/ the Momentum, you might consider solving the weak points in the gear you already have rather than buying new gear.

Some might say a new tent is more fun – other that modding your existing gear is.  Doesn’t sound like you’re going to beat the weight of the Momentum by much if you require an inner.

[Franco Darioli]

here is my Moment :

and Alex Wallace’s Moment :

those single pegs did not pull out.

[Ken Thompson]

Rocks and snowshoes probably helped.

[Eddie Brennan]

Too many pegoing points? 6 OK but some pyramid tents have 12+ with seeming little scope to move the points about (so I’ve read, not having used one).

The Moment DW is too small for me and my dog. She would fit in but no room for movement. In my experience a dog doesn’t lie placidly in the spot you want her to.

 

I am looking into additional pegging for the Moment. However much of the Scottish Highlands is bare of trees, and with a few exceptions any forest is dense softwood plantation.

[Nick Gatel]

Too many pegoing points? 6 OK but some pyramid tents have 12+ with seeming little scope to move the points about (so I’ve read, not having used one).

I’ve never hiked in Scotland, but lots of truly epic winds in our deserts where I walk. In bad weather more guys and more beefy stakes are better! I don’t remember how many stakes are required for full storm-mode on my Scarp 1 (including optional guys) – might be a dozen. IIRC my Trailstar has 10. IMO, looking for fewer pegging points is false economy where serious weather is not uncommon.

[Franco Darioli]

And BTW Arien , no the Trailstar sil , with inner, is not half of the weight of the Scarp or less..

As pointed out by Nick :

My Trailstar with 9″ Easton stakes, 3mm guylines, .600″ carbon fiber poles, and seal sealed weighs 30 ounces. I don’t have an inner.

My Scarp 1 weighs 64 ounces, including the 12 ounce optional crossing pole and Easton stakes.

To adjust for this enquiry , add the 13oz inner to the Trailstar and it becomes 42 oz, take the X poles out of the Scarp and you are down to 52 oz.

So yes still around 10 oz heavier but hardly half of the weight or less.

Anyway if the wind changes, chances are that you need to change the orientation of one and not the other :

Craig Cameron’s Scarp 1 in Scotland

franco@tarptent

[Edward John M]

Midges are  No-See-Ums with serrated steak knives for teeth

[arien g]

Franco, yup you’re right. But for high winds it might be better to leave the crossing pole included for the Scarp, in which case the trailstar is still a good pound or so lighter. But yeah, not close to half.

 

[Nick Gatel]

Here’s a couple more thoughts…

Midges. We don’t have them, except for the Midges that are Barbie’s best friend.

Mosquitos don’t bother me much and a head-net and DEET handles that problem. I really like my TrailStar, but the extra weight of an inner would give me pause.

Getting in and out of my TrailStar is a hands and knees proposition; much more difficult than the Scarp. But then, I’m skinny and pretty nimble so the hands and knees thing isn’t a big deal. To be honest, the need to re-peg the TrailStar for changing winds has never happened to me.

In winter, the Scarp 1 is a “real” double wall tent. Condensation isn’t a problem like it is with the TrailStar. But the TrailStar is so big inside I have never gotten anything wet or damp from the condensation on the walls.

These are some of the pro’s and con’s in my mind. So which shelter do I like the best… or rather which do I use the most?

Neither.

For the past couple of years my go-to shelter has been a Cuben SMD Deschutes. Before that a zPacks Hexamid was my go to shelter for 5 or 6 years. But we usually have nice weather where I live compared to Scotland.

I take the TrailStar when I expect a lot of rain or a lot of wind. In winter, when I know it will snow I usually take the Scarp.

If I could only have one shelter, it would be the TrailStar.

If I could only have one shelter and I needed an inner all the time, it would be the Scarp. Also, Franco mentioned using the Scarp without the crossing poles — I usually leave them at home.

I enjoy reading several UK blogs so I have an inkling of weather over there. I have a feeling that if Iived over there and hiked year round, a Scarp 1 would probably be my all around choice… that or an Akto — they seem to be very similar.

 

[Franco Darioli]

The Scarp and Akto are indeed similar in the way 2 and 3 pole tunnel tents are also similar to each other.

There are several details that distinguish one from the other and I could point them out if anyone is interested.

The X poles are an accessory  ($40 for the two) , so not included with the standard kit .

That is because the tent works well as it is in most situations, the X poles mostly help with snow loads more than a couple of inches or so.

You can see that Craig, in the photo above, did not use them , yet he was there skiing.

Lots of photos in our Gallery :

http://www.tarptent.com/gallery.html

you can select : one person to eliminate the rest.

 

[Pete M]

Is the Scarp more suitable for Scottish conditions than the Stratospire? I’m a  Scottish Trailstar user myself and I can’t see that I’ll ever need another shelter…unless I end up living in a cardboard box behind Glasgow Central Station, drinking petrol for breakfast.

[Mole J]

I am a UK based backpacker with many weeks ( over the years) experience of  3season backpacking in Scotland.

Amongst other shelters, we own a Scarp, Moment DW and Stratospire 2.  The Latter has seen Scottish Highlands use for 3 weeks total, the Scarp, about 10 weeks since 2011. Also have had a Trailstar since 2012…

Various thoughts come to mind. Picky ones first!

1. 2kg is L , not UL
2. As Catherine said, why not ask on a UK forum which will likely be far more useful due to greater numbers of users experiences.
3. Listen to Nick!
4. A moment can have extra guys at each end – 2 more in a V will triple peg it. Plus the 4 extra edge tie outs, and it’s much more secure.
5. The Scarp is superior than the moment for the conditions and for room.  It has 5 struts/3 pegs at each end opposed to 2/1. It has shaped panels with taut seams to each corner rather than one panel like the Moment, which is a Laser Competition or Vaude Power Lizard.
6. I’ve used the Scarp in 60mph winds . It held. Not sure the Moment would be as comfortable or secure.
7. I’ve used the Scarp 1 several times with my partner. There is room.
8. The Stratospire 2 ( 1 is just narrower) is not as windworthy as the Scarp. Bigger more vertical panels, make for blocky sides, and fewer pegs.
9. The Stratospire has more headroom and porch spaces.
10. An Akto will have less room and more condensation than a Scarp, but likely tolerate similar winds. It is better quality material wise and build wise.  Hence the price differential. It will last longer.
11. Trailstar is good in wind, but different experience than a tent. With inner, not so good if you are tall. Also, many times, I have pitched the Scarp places where the Trailstar would not be possible due to limited space width wise. I am used to creative pitching but the Trailstar is a big footprint.

Hope this helps

[Pete M]

Looks like the new Scarp 1 has been widened too, plenty of room for you and your dog. Looks good as a two person shelter too, especially as the weight would be divided.

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