- Jan 23, 2018 at 4:37 pm #3513888
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern CaliforniaJan 23, 2018 at 4:59 pm #3513898
It’s really too bad that the kind of people who would normally shoot a President like this are his base supporters.Jan 23, 2018 at 5:29 pm #3513901
Ken he is doing what his supporters want. He is giving Murican companies a competitive edge against those evil chinese. They will cheer him for this. Plus solar panels are stupid and only a commie would buy them. Or have the state pay for them for you. :) (thats a smile, don’t everyone go crazy)Jan 23, 2018 at 5:59 pm #3513910
Exactly.Jan 23, 2018 at 6:06 pm #3513914
d kBPL Member
Except it’s not a Murican company. Owned by Chinese investors, largely. Just based here.Jan 23, 2018 at 6:14 pm #3513922
I just really hate this guy. If Trump’s worried about imports and unfair pricing, how about slapping a 30% fee on oil from abroad? He acts out of ignorance and malice and revenge.
Let’s see how the Chinese respond.Jan 26, 2018 at 4:56 pm #3514606
Here’s Krugman in today’s NYTimes:
He suggests that the solar panel tariff is as much an attack on renewable energies as anything else. Which we already knew, but he makes the point well. He wants to strangle renewables but he has tiny hands, and so he’s only able to pull at their hair. (this last is me, not Krugman).Jan 26, 2018 at 5:05 pm #3514610
Jeff it is not the same as oil. We have plenty of oil production in our country and the prices are fare. We can not complete with Chinese labor and we are trying to build green jobs in our country. The tariff is pushed by those companies to attempt to make them profitable. Punish the Chinese for their dirty business and MAGA!Jan 26, 2018 at 5:37 pm #3514619
Ben CBPL Member
If I understand, we need tariffs because the Chinese are selling them to us too cheaply. Seems like we would simply take advantage of their stupid low prices and buy them up.Jan 26, 2018 at 6:28 pm #3514623
but that costs American jobs. Plus the chinese make them cheap because they don’t pay a fair wage and they destroy the enviroment. Anyone that would buy panels should oppose them on principle. LOL
I’m only a little bit serious here. I just can’t take the chaff topics and discussion too seriously anymore.Jan 26, 2018 at 6:35 pm #3514625
Oh it’s true that the Chinese play dirty in some instances. Nothing wrong with pushing back! But as Krugman writes, alternative energies have taken off over the last ten years or so; they employ five times the number of people as coal. These tariffs are likely to cost jobs in this market and cause prices to increase on solar panels without really affecting China at all, for whom panels are a loss leader. And in any case, the tariffs phase out over four years–after one, effectively. So it’s a meaningless policy, unless like Todd you think talking points amount to anything other than empty bluster. So at a minimum this policy hurts American workers, exactly the opposite of what it’s supposed to do. A man with small hands shouldn’t try to wrap them around large issues–they will always exceed his grasp. I mean Trump of course, not Todd!
As far as Chinese panels costing American jobs…again, if you read the article (and I don’t always read linked articles but comment anyway, ahem) Krugman points out that since the tariffs phase out quickly, there’s zero incentive to build plants here. It won’t happen. so, it’s an ineffective policy designed for ticking off campaign promises for the base (coal supporters and import haters). You can make the argument that ANY import ‘costs Americans jobs’ if that import could be built here. Care to start down that long and winding road? Bring on a trade war? There’s a reason why the solar panel association dislikes this tariff–it slows growth and costs jobs.
If you want to take on the Chinese double dealing in trade, better doing something meaningful in a way that actually benefits the U.S. workers. this is spite and shite.
Jan 26, 2018 at 6:37 pm #3514626
- This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by jeffrey armbruster.
Robots do most of the work. Coal is the future.Jan 26, 2018 at 6:45 pm #3514631
We can always make chocolate covered coal briquettes and feed them to the sinking middle class.Jan 26, 2018 at 7:14 pm #3514637
Jeff I am right beside Hershey.
I would say that 99% of what is done and said is purely for show. Trumps whole presidency is for show.
I’m not sure why panels are not even cheaper. It seems like a decade ago they had technology that could print a solar panel for cents per watt.
Most of what I said before was in jest but I do think it is how most people feel.
In other threads Craig has alluded to the fact we need our military might to secure our economy. It seems to me that everyone wants to sell us things. They sell us what we want and they get rich. If anything the military gets in the way of that by creating tension where none should be. Same with Gov’t in general. Why is it any of their business if I want to buy fishing lures and solar panels direct from China?
Jan 26, 2018 at 7:43 pm #3514643
- This reply was modified 4 months, 4 weeks ago by Todd Stough.
Ben CBPL Member
Best of both worlds. We get cheaper solar panels and don’t pollute our environment or have to work cheaply. If they subsidize cheap solar panels, maybe we should accept the benefit of that subsidy.Jan 26, 2018 at 8:40 pm #3514666
Ben it’s better than subisdizing out own solar companies to try and make them profitable. If the chinese make it better and cheaper then buy theirs.Jan 26, 2018 at 8:57 pm #3514673
Ben 2 WorldBPL Member
@ben2worldLocale: So Cal
My view.. if we want to punish China, we should tax consumer imports (toys, clothing, etc.). Lots of other countries (Vietnam, Haiti, etc.) can fill the gap. We get to narrow our trade deficit with China, other poor countries can improve their economies, and we still get to enjoy low prices.
But if we truly want to protect American jobs, then this kind of tariff is completely idiotic. This kind of artificial prop up does not make our workers/industries any more competitive. Even worse, given so many of our industries can stand to benefit from solar – this tariff artificially inflates the cost for everyone — and thus slowing our national transformation. Better to invest in more education and more R&D so that America can continue to invent entirely new (and profitable) industries.Jan 26, 2018 at 9:51 pm #3514685
Of course China can impose tariffs as well. My guess is that if you game out the consequences of a tariff war, we’ll end up with higher prices on lots of consumer goods, possible shortages (even in pharmaceuticals, which are already vulnerable to Chinese production) and net job loss.
But honestly, I’m all for sourcing here or in Mexico/Canada. I wonder: can Trump drop out of the Pacific rim trade deal (done) AND Nafta at the same time? Or I mean, would that ever be good policy? Abandoning the field to China in the Pacific strikes me as a particularly stupid move. Deal maker genius my ass.Jan 26, 2018 at 9:57 pm #3514686
Franco DarioliBPL Member
How to punish China…
Maybe before you get to that , it could be worth remembering that China has $1.19 trillion of US Government bonds.Jan 27, 2018 at 4:25 pm #3514773
Trump knows bankruptcy. Wipe it clean and start over.Jan 27, 2018 at 5:38 pm #3514781
I don’t think ollie ollie all come free works in international banking. There would be consequences–this is beyond me, but we’d pay one way or the other. Remember, China represents a huge export market for us, and growing.Jan 28, 2018 at 3:59 pm #3514942
.Jan 28, 2018 at 4:00 pm #3514943
All the outs come in free, Ollie Ollie oxen free.lol.
Land a goshen.
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