Oct 28, 2019 at 8:23 pm #3616185
I know Craig brought this up a while ago and Ian as well?
How did it go?
I have been reading more about it since Chris just “naturally” only eats during a six hour period ( his internal clock isn’t messed up like mine ..) and since I am dealing with inflammation.
This is my fourth day and it’s going ok but does not match up with eating with others at all.
I am interested in what others think about it.Oct 28, 2019 at 8:25 pm #3616186
Ps. It’s 1:30 and I have not eaten since 9pm last night. I do like to have dinner with Chris so I am trying to start late in the day. Seems like forever right now.Oct 28, 2019 at 8:54 pm #3616189Daryl and DarylBPL Member
@lyrad1Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
The research appeals to me.
I was thinking that no eating from about 4PM to 0800 would be something I could live with.
Haven’t actually done it, however.
Guy on the radio said it beat the heck out of dieting.Oct 28, 2019 at 9:01 pm #3616195
I just read that all benefits are gone if the eating window is late in the day. I will have to switch it upOct 29, 2019 at 1:36 am #3616270
I did this for about 3 months. Lost weight, felt good, reduced brain fog in the afternoon. Also “ recalibrated” to a degree; remembering what it is to be hungry vs. simply craving food or flavors.
That said, it screwed with my social life too much. Skipping a late dinner with family seemed a silly trade-off. As did skipping espresso and pastries with my cycling crew at a cafe before a morning ride. Or a pint and a slice of pizza after a day in the mountains, no matter the time. I started feeling like my relationship with food became a little too transactional and up-tight; social eating is important to me.
But the science certainly seems to be there. We all live different lives so maybe it’s more sustainable for others to mesh with their schedules and needs. Dr. Rhonda Patrick is the shit on this topic.Oct 29, 2019 at 1:51 am #3616276
Oh, most of the studies I read said anything but water counts towards breaking the fast and activating metabolism….including black coffee. The hell with that, I cheated on this point. I have no problem waiting all day to eat if I need to but I’m not skipping out on coffee. Some things in life are simply non-negotiable at this point.Oct 29, 2019 at 2:15 am #3616282
I can definitively see how it is not conducive to communal eating. Chris eats late in the day but I think early would work better for me which means we’d never eat together. We love cooking for each other and that would be a big loss. From what I read all the benefits are gone if one eats late at night and if that is true why bother? Chris cannot eat till at least 4 or he gets so bogged down he cannot so anything. I will give it a go to see how I feel and if I can reduce inflammation.Oct 29, 2019 at 2:48 am #3616291
I read a lot of health/nutrition blogs…If inflammation is the issue, most people I’m familiar with tie that to an autoimmune issue of some sort. So maybe an autoimmune diet protocol would work instead of time restricted eating. Most autoimmune protocol diets (AIP) consist of whole foods only (meat/fruit/veggies) and no refined sugars, grains (refined or not), dairy, some seeds, etc. Chris Kresser, Robb Wolf, Dr. Rhonda Patrick all have a lot to say on the issue.
Chirs Kresser usually recommends people start with a simple 30-day “paleo” style diet, then get more restrictive from there if symptoms persist.
Let me know if you want more info, I’m currently going off the deep-end reading in this area due to some personal health issues that also include inflammation.Oct 29, 2019 at 2:59 am #3616293
Thanks again Craig. So fruit is ok? I am trying to figure out foods that are low on the hypoglycemic scale.Oct 29, 2019 at 3:00 am #3616294
From your post I can’t tell if dairy is ok. I am assuming not? I eat very little dairy already but I like it..Oct 29, 2019 at 3:24 am #3616297
I guess it all depends on what you’re going for; there are quite a few approaches to this for different reasons. Most people that advocate against fruit do it from a weight-loss perspective (avoiding sugar/blood sugar spikes) or from a ketogenic diet rationale (keeping carbs very low).
But in many AIP diets fruit is perfectly OK as the nutrients are wanted and fruits are not considered particularly aggravating or inflammatory. But the quality matters; citrus, which is pure sugar, is avoided whereas things like blueberries and mangos are encouraged. Dairy is typically restricted as it is believed many people are far more sensitive to it than they realize. I was vegan for many years in another life and I learned that cutting out dairy altogether, particularly milk products (and not eggs) in my case, eliminated a lot of nasal congestion issues. So I continue to eat eggs (from my own chickens) but I generally avoid dairy.
Chris Kresser has a good summary of a few different diet approaches to autoimmune issues here:
Not sure what your needs/goals are here and I’m hardly a doctor/nutritionist, but when I hear inflammation (that’s not the result of trauma) it’s typically always associated with an autoimmune response of some sort. Chris Kresser is incredibly thorough, I’d recommend browsing his articles and podcasts.Oct 29, 2019 at 3:22 pm #3616336
I’ll look into it more when I have a chance Craig ( midterms now..), thank you.
From recent tests I don’t appear to have auto immune reactions, but who knows what the tests I took really say. I do have some inflammation in my arteries ( C protein reactive something or other), the number being 29, just below the 30 to 100 that puts people in the high risk category. I will be discussing this tomorrow with my doc but I know when I was on an anti inflammatory diet before I did feel a whole lot better, from energy levels to pain to fat/muscle ratio but I also worked out more and was really on point with everything.Oct 29, 2019 at 4:26 pm #3616344IanBPL Member
I tried it for a month a couple times. I didn’t see or feel any benefit.Oct 29, 2019 at 6:52 pm #3616380
I am willing to give it a go without becoming obsessed, but also going back to the anti inflammatory diet. Last time I had cut out most meat, this time I think I will try eating at least some meat since it lasts longer in my system.Oct 30, 2019 at 12:05 am #3616416
It’s still an interesting topic to me, many layers of things happening here.
In Dr. Satchin Panda’s human trials, he found nutritional quality was higher among people following a TRE program. The time of day has a far greater impact upon what we eat than many of us realize. For example, the majority of all coffee among people tracked on a standard ~15 hour eating cycle was consumed in a 4 hour window at the beginning of the cycle. Duh. And the majority of alcohol and sugar were consumed in a 5-7 hour window at the end of the cycle (obviously, drinks and dessert). But by shifting to a 10 hour cycle, it was found that people typically stopped eating earlier than normal, thus cutting the majority of the sweets and alcohol that would’ve otherwise been eaten.
For the average participant, a 10 hour eating window resulted in a 20% reduction in calories, without being told to reduce quantity of food being eaten. This makes sense and could be a very simple alternative to counting calories for those interested in weight loss.
In mice studies, two groups were given the exact same quantity and quality of food, though one group only had a 12 hour feeding window. The other had unlimited access and tended to snack intermittently almost around the clock. The TRE group experienced a reduction in fat, increase in lean muscle mass, improved lipid profile, and lower inflammation markers. In a further study, they were cut from 12 to 9 hours. This group showed all the same benefits with the addition of increased aerobic endurance. This was due to increased mitochondrial density…something probably every one of us would benefit from boosting for health and longevity.
Anyhow, quite a few gains from a relatively simple change. Combined with solid nutrition, I imagine one could build a pretty effective restorative regimen.
All of this said, now I realize I cannot say I’ve truly ever done it, or at least reaped the full benefits. Going back and re-reading some articles on this topic, Dr. Panda is very clear that the first sip or bite of anything besides water, including black coffee or tea, seems to start the “clock”, so to speak. They don’t fully understand why, but can see it in research.
(I’m paraphrasing but can cite all of this if anyone’s interested).
Which makes me wonder a lot about revisiting this in a more stringent fashion, forgoing even the morning coffee until my window starts. Yikes!
Thanks for putting this back on my radar Kat, I’ve enjoyed looking back into it. I’m also dealing with a health issue that involves systemic inflammation/autoimmune response and TRE sort of fell off my radar. I’m wonder given the new circumstances I find myself in if it wouldn’t be worth reinvestigating.
You mention cutting out most meat last time you tried it Kat…Regarding autoimmune protocol diets, the one thing that seems pretty consistent across the board is that meat should be included and grains/sugars/alcohol should absolutely be cut. Maybe that would work better? Let me know how it goes.Oct 30, 2019 at 12:12 am #3616420IanBPL Member
I wouldn’t steer anyone away from it. Some of my coworkers swear by it and feel that it’s helped them lose weight and that it is part of the puzzle for their optimal health. I just found that for me, I didn’t notice a difference.
I was also eating a keto diet at the time. I have some strange reactions to the keto diet, so perhaps I should try it again but not in a ketogenic state.Oct 30, 2019 at 1:57 am #3616438jscottBPL Member
@bookLocale: Northern California
I’m getting better. I refrained from making a joke about Dr. Panda’s human trials. I’m on a bad joke diet, apparently.
Carry on.Oct 30, 2019 at 2:39 am #3616449d kBPL Member
Larry’s been doing the TRE thing for about a year now, after reading about it in a book about avoiding Alzheimer’s (his father had it). He tries to eat within an 8-hour period, delaying his breakfast depending on when we ate dinner. So we generally eat on the early side.
Where did you read that there are only benefits if you do the eating early?
What I recall about the anti-inflammatory diet I followed for a little while years ago was aiming at eating about 10 servings of vegetables per day. I managed to follow it for about 6 months but it did not do what it had been recommended for, on my one and only visit to an alternative medicine MD, so that was that. I’m sure for reducing inflammation it is helpful, but not for making fibroid tumors disappear. (insert rolling eyeballs) What can I say, I was gullible…Oct 30, 2019 at 12:18 pm #3616498
I will reply better later but here is the study that indicates the time of day makes all the differenceOct 30, 2019 at 5:36 pm #3616534
Got my docs thumbs up on this; she thinks it is a great way to reduce coronary inflammation. She said if I can’t stick with it all week even two days a week have shown positive results….BUT the days I don’t do it I should wait four to six hours between meals, without tea, coffee or any snacks in between, just water.
I am on a mission to beat this.Oct 30, 2019 at 6:12 pm #3616540
@dk how is it working for Larry? I posted the link to the study up above; I was surprised to read that not only are the benefits gone if the eating happens late at night, but it can go the other way, causing harm.
@Craig I am onboard. Apparently the no coffee no tea is real; makes it all a bit harder but worth a try anyway. These last two days getting up at 4 and waiting till 8 for coffee have been rough.
@Ian it’s probably impossible to have one diet or one anything that works for everyone.Oct 30, 2019 at 9:35 pm #3616567AaronBPL Member
The diet that works for everyone (whose goal is losing weight) is eat fewer calories than one burns. Different diets only try and make that goal easier. Idk what TRE is, sounds like IF (or any other word for waiting to eat each day). I do a lot of lifting, so after my last bulk I wanted to cut 13 lbs of fat (typically one gains part fat and part muscle on a bulk, so the fat needs to go periodically). I found waiting til 11 or 12 to eat anything made it a LOT easier to survive the day and not feel crazy hungry, while still in a 700 calorie deficit.
OTOH, I know nothing about inflammation, nor even what it means.Oct 31, 2019 at 4:38 am #3616630
@Kat: On Dr. Rhonda Patrick’s blog I found some conflicting claims about coffee. She generally recommends against it but cites a few studies demonstrating coffee had little effect on a positive TRE outcome. Good news for us early-rising coffee drinkers. I’m also up around ~4AM to 4:45AM every day. Waiting to eat and working or exercising fasted doesn’t bother me; I just drink more water. But waiting 5-6 hours for my coffee ain’t gonna work so well…
Look at the link for Part 5:Oct 31, 2019 at 3:18 pm #3616670d kBPL Member
@Kattt – He does well on it, no problem for him adhering to guidelines. (He’s much more disciplined than I.) We have early dinners, so don’t eat late. His blood sugar levels have not gone back into the pre diabetic range they were at just prior to 2015 (despite having excellent dietary habits). Can’t tell if it’s warding off Alzheimer’s, of course, but he’s quite fit and doing well other than the continuing odd symptoms he’s had since his fever. He’s waiting on getting accepted into this program: https://undiagnosed.hms.harvard.edu/Oct 31, 2019 at 3:54 pm #3616674
@dk I really hope Larry can get into that program, sounds like a real life “Dr. House”!
we should get together again…
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