THE INEFFICIENT BACKPACK

[Matthew / BPL]

Stuart, I don’t think you are going to ruffle any feathers posting them here but I’ll PM you my email address.

[Bob Moulder]

My fastest technique is the lock knee technique where you lock your knee to the rear. You then launch yourself forward with each stride. It nearly doubles the speed for each step.

Wow, I’d like to see a video of that.

I think??

This has got to be the weirdest thread on BPL in quite some time. It has morphed into a bizarre admixture of the Twilight Zone and Monty Python.

I keep getting the feeling we’re all being punked (in which case, Bravo to the OP) but it has more entertainment value than anything else I’ve seen on BPL lately.    :^)

[Steofan M]

Sounds like Lung Gompa technique, but then you would only need a few items rolled in a blanket instead of a new backpack with attached smoke bombs.
Sorry, OP; just me chiming in again.

[Greg Mihalik]

“My fastest technique is the lock knee technique where you lock your knee to the rear. You then launch yourself forward with each stride. It nearly doubles the speed for each step.”

 

Speed Walking –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1sxFgTUbWo#t=3m5s

[Bob Moulder]

If it’s so efficient, why do they collapse after only 3.1 miles?    :^)

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

I think we are on candid camera. :-)

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

On even terrain.

[Kevin B]

With that technique I see why there is a lot of lateral thrusting on the pack, although the use of it to race such a short distance (5000m) surely exacerbates the side to side rocking of the torso…. clearly enough to shake unsecured smoke bombs loose….jk. KickStarter get ready?

Seriously, OP, did your test subject use a similar technique to race walking/knee locking on the treadmill at 4 mph?  If so that could help explain differing perspectives of the ‘inefficiencies’ in this thread.

[BlackHatGuy]

This thread has kind of deteriorated into ganging up on and mocking the OP, which is not showing the best side of this online community. And a ‘he started it!’ defense is something children do on the playground. I don’t suppose I could convince y’all to just let this one go.

[jimmy b]

I wasn’t going to add anything to this thread and I am kinda thankful I was out and about in the Pacific North West enjoying a great trip when all this was going down. But…as far as the lock knee technique the OP refers to…I have understood this to be in hiking and BPing terms as the rest step where one leg is locked at the knee giving a bone supporting rest to that legs muscles while the moving leg rests its muscle structure in its transitioning step until it is placed in a lock knee position using the same bone structure for support and resting those muscles. Seems to me this has been around for quite some time and I use it frequently when the inclines are goat like and I’m considerably beat up. Am I to understand that the OP is the original inventor of this technique? Just wondering.

As far as my opinion of the OP’s invention. I have serious doubts to its practicality for any type of packing application as the weight I would care to carry in his device would be so low that any hydration pack or running vest would handle it quite easily and the packing/unpacking would be much easier. IMO of course. I would not want to carry any such non compressible items in those shoulder tubes that would rub through light weight fabrics assaulting my collar bone all day long.

I’m just a lowly educated guy who has different skill sets than the OP with back rounds in machining, mechanics, and fabrication using my hands to make a living all my life but I have learned that there is a big gap between engineering and practical use. I am amazed at good engineering and at the same time I get frustrated very quickly with design that puts form before function . The difference to me is one is big on common sense, simplicity, definitive proof of practical application. I don’t mean to speak for anyone else but possibly the problem many here are having with the OP is that his proof in the pudding is very sketchy at least given what he has presented as evidence of his design bettering the current standard. I would put myself in that group. He really may have wanted to wait until his data base of proof of product was far more expansive. I see no actual practical trail time results with a wide base of hikers of different levels of abilities represented in real life usage of his design. My thoughts are that he has put the cart way before the horse. My advise to the OP would have been make up 50 or so units and get them in the field for actual testing and feedback. Other than that he may be fooling himself.

[Ken Thompson]

Nice.

[S. Steele]

Bob M: Such triviality, your comment is ridiculous.

Ken T: Preferably on even terrain. I have techniques for ascending and descending.

Doug: Thank you for a sensible response.

jimmy b: The lock knee technique, my term is the only technique that I didn’t develop. It was taught to me by Dr. Martin Jungman, an Austrian, in 1968. Please don’t consider yourself a simple human being. Your skills in mechanics and machining are admirable. I had wanted to learn machining. My pack is a development of many packs that I developed over 45 years. It is simple and practical. Without stopping you can access gear and drink. How many packs these days include direct access to gear on the go without taking it off. You normally have to had pouch(s) to obtain additional storage. Aarn and I have the same pack philosophy – transfer a portion of the load to the front for improved comfort and direct accessibility to preferred gear.

[Pedestrian]

The fact that this thread and the other thread (see below) have generated as much of a response as they have should tell us all a lot about our BPL “community”.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/heading-out-with-some-non-ul-folks-gulp/

As @idester requested above, can we please let this thread die?

Thanks for your kind attention and no I have nothing to add to this topic.

[jimmy b]

As @idester requested above, can we please let this thread die?

Good luck with that…requests for civility are just fine but I don’t think requests for suppression of thoughts and opinions are going anywhere here. Especially with the likes of strong willed and minded folks like found here. My self included. Although I have been know to be wrong at times :)

[Pedestrian]

Hmmmmm….and I thought it was a request for suppression of lack of thought…..

Live and learn I guess :).

[jimmy b]

S Steele I was a bit tongue and cheek about my educational deficiencies and I am sometimes a bit self deprecating. Honestly I would not trade all my experience and my self sufficiency and common sense for the best of any Ivy league education or other. And with that I will pass on further comment, lest I without meaning to, offend a bunch of really smart folks that have been very helpful to me, who without knowing me better would not understand the above statement.

As Roger says   “Cheers”

[jimmy b]

Pedestrian all Im saying is the conversation should end without squelching anyone yet to post or possibly move to chaff which I have no say in. Im not big on throwing out the baby with the bath water. No offense to you or your post was intended, just as stated I though the odds of the request being accepted by some might be slim. Again I have been known to be wrong: )

[Roger Caffin]

the pack is designed for an over-nighter at best.
Enlightenment.
Given the transport hassles getting to and fromn the hike, the preparing and packing hassles gearing up for the trip, the gear clean up hassles after the trip, the limited range of terrain one can cover in that time, … I find a simple overnighter to be rather inefficient use of my time.

Btw – what’s all this about the hip belt constricting your breathing? It’s a HIP belt, not a waist belt.

Cheers

[jimmy b]

Given the transport hassles getting to and fromn the hike, the preparing and packing hassles gearing up for the trip, the gear clean up hassles after the trip, the limited range of terrain one can cover in that time, … I find a simple overnighter to be rather inefficient use of my time.

Yes, all the above may certainly be true for some but I rather a night out in the woods to house chores any day : ) Cleaning all the gear gives me an excuse to put the chores off for one more day. Whats not to like ;)

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

an excuse to put the chores off for one more day.
But they are all still there when I get home … no-win.

Cheers

[Kattt]

+1 with Doug.

This is too much.

[Nick Gatel]

Given the transport hassles getting to and fromn the hike, the preparing and packing hassles gearing up for the trip, the gear clean up hassles after the trip, the limited range of terrain one can cover in that time, … I find a simple overnighter to be rather inefficient use of my time.

Roger, maybe you are over-thinking this. I do 1 & 2 day trips all the time. I live 3 miles from a trailhead that goes into the San Jacinto Wilderness and sometimes I cheat. I also am equa-distance from the north and south entrances to Joshua Tree National Park (both are 51 miles from my house). The south entrance is quicker as I live 1 mile from the freeway and it’s about 40 miles of 70 mph freeway to the south entrance turn-off. I am 36 miles from the west entrance to Joshua Tree. Joshua Tree is larger than the state of Rhode Island at about 800,000 acres so there are LOTS of places to hike. My favorite place to backpack short trips is Anza Borrego State Park, which is “only” 600,000 acres and 90 miles from my house and is a nice drive.

The thing about these short trips is they are easy to plan and execute, and over time I get to explore many nooks and crannies that most people just pass by. It’s the nooks and crannies that make short trips highly desirable — becoming intimate with favorite places.

It doesn’t take long to pack. My basic gear for almost every trip is in a plastic bin or I just leave it in my pack ready to go. I just need to choose which quilt to use and which shelter. All my clothes are in another bin. How much cleaning of gear is required after a 1 or 2 day trip? Almost none, except washing the clothes I wore and putting them back in the bin.

Now let’s talk about inefficient packs…

On these short trips I often take a stuff sack with straps.

This picture is from last week. I have 4 days of food (we planned on 4 days but couldn’t cross a Sierra Nevada river and cut it short to 3 days). When I left home with the fully loaded pack, it weighed a hair over 11 lbs with food and a liter of water. For an overnight trip it usually weighs around 5 pounds with food, water is dependent on location and time of year. When hiking I pretty much don’t even notice I am carrying a pack.

How fast I walk is determined by my physical conditioning. For example, when I do the Skyline Trail in Palm Springs (11 miles and 8,000 ft elevation gain) I can do it in 6 hours. Doesn’t matter if I am using a stuff sack with straps or my McHale Bump. Sometimes I do this trail as a day hike and take the tram back down, with just water and a FAK… same times to complete as when I take a pack for an overnight or longer trip. If I’m not in shape, then 8 hours or even more. Plus, I’m an old fart.

On any trip, if I am on well maintained and fairly level trails I can do 3 miles per hour all day, although I prefer a slower pace 2 to 2.5 miles per hour. This is the same pace I walk in town without a pack unless I want to kick it up for better exercise, but if I need better exercise I just run. Going off trail is a different animal and speed is contingent on terrain and obstacles.

So… IMO, walking efficiency is really more a matter of conditioning, not what pack you use or what shoes you wear.

 

[Matthew / BPL]

Wow! I hadn’t thought about how good the access to wilderness is for PS residents.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Nick

You are a bit better served than me. We have plenty of day walk opportunities out the door or 5 minutes drive away, and we use them lots. For multi-day walks we need to go a bit furtther.

Really, though, I was just playing with the word ‘inefficient’. :)

Cheers

[Nick Gatel]

Roger,

I know.

Cheers!

[Author]

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