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Tell me about your poncho


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Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 59 total)
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  • #3404679
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    “DWR seeping through.”

    What is that supposed to mean?

    #3404680
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi Ben C.,

    Tyvek Homewrap also works very well for a rain skirt for similar reasons (it’s stiffer and doesn’t cling to the body), isn’t that much heavier than one made out of 1 oz/yd2 cuben one (about an ounce and a half difference if same volume of material is used), and is A LOT cheaper.  I’ve made and used both cuben and homewrap ones. Overall, i prefer the Homewrap one.

    Jen here talked about her cuben tent starting to get fuzzy, just from the abrasion of packing it, pulling it out, etc.  After it started to get fuzzy, it started to hold onto water in a major way.  Something worn on the body, is going to experience more abrasion than a tent.

    I’m not a cuben hater by any means–i think it’s pretty good for tents and tarps, but there are definitely just as good, and much cheaper options for clothing wear.

    I don’t understand why someone would want to use a material that costs 30 dollars a yard, and which has poor abrasion resistance for these applications, when there are materials that function just as well at much lower prices.  Normally i wouldn’t say anything, live and let live and all that, but when someone so strongly advocates for cuben in these areas to others, like Nick has, i think a counter balance is potentially helpful.

     

    #3404683
    Matt Dirksen
    BPL Member

    @namelessway

    Locale: Mid Atlantic

    Just know that recent studies have shown that Tyvek, as well as other popular wpb’s used in building construction are severely impaired by uv damage.

    Which I would assume means to try not wearing your Tyvek poncho on sunny days…. :)

    http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/articles/dept/building-science/can-your-water-resistive-barrier-take-uv-exposure

    (I guess the data does make me wonder whether its wise to use Tyvek as a shelter material)

    But not to digress, does anyone use a Gatewood Cape these days – other than myself? For solo stuff, I love the cape!

    #3404685
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Wouldn’t be much of an issue in my case, as my proposed poncho design would have the 1443R tyvek under the silicone treated nylon–that would provide plenty of UV protection for the tyvek–sun or no sun.  The silicone also helps the nylon itself a bit too.

    I would be a little more worried about a tyvek homewrap rain skirt, but it doesn’t come out much, and i only wear it while it’s raining (lower UV).

    I’ve looked at the Gatewood Cape and have thought about getting one–i think it’s a great design overall.  But i’m pretty happy with the MLD cuben solo mid, and when it comes to rain gear, i’m a bit (probably over) obsessed with maximum moisture movement, which is why i’ve done so much, and continue to do experimentation in this area.

    #3404688
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    No fuzzy rain kilt here.  And no signs of abrasion.  There’s just not that much abrasion on a kilt or poncho typically.  My backpacking tends toward the wet side.  I’m happy enough with the cuben kilt that I wouldn’t think twice about using it as a poncho.  It certainly costs a little more.

    #3404690
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    How long have you had it Ben, and roughly speaking, how many times have you used it?

    When comparing materials and their properties, these kind of details will be important to document.  This is one of the benefits of BPL, imo, a deeper scrutiny of gear and it’s various pro’s and con’s, rather than some over generalized, Backpacker magazine type opinion article and possibly sponsored by some company in some way.

    I will say in cuben’s defense, that it seems like Jen used her tent a lot before it started to get fuzzy/hold onto water. Also, that tent material has a thinner mylar film.  So maybe the cost/use ratio mostly balances out over time with the 1 oz/yd2 Cuben pieces?

    #3404705
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Yeah, cuben ponchos are probably fairly good and last awhile if one lives in CA, hikes primarily in the desert, and the poncho rarely leaves the pack.

    I hate to tell you this but I have had this cuben poncho for going on 6 years. During that time it has gone with me on hikes in about 30 states in most parts of the continental US.

    This picture was taken in Jul 2013 on the Appalachian Trail, near Lehigh Gap, Pennsylvannia.

    June of 2014 found me on the Buckeye Trail in Ohio, with lots of rain.

    Backpacking is backpacking, which is just walking. No place is inherently better or more difficult than another if the backpacker has the skills and experience to stay safe. Gear is gear, other than adjusting for extremes in temperature. We make way too much of the gear aspect.

    Ponchos work for me. Obviously, most people don’t like them. That’s okay, as I could care less what someone uses for rain gear. A smaller cuben poncho works even better for me. If this helps someone make a decision — for or against a cuben poncho, or even a poncho vs a rain jacket, it doesn’t matter to me.

     

     

     

     

    #3404711
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    I’ve had my kilt 4-5 years, I believe. I take it on virtually every trip except winter trips.

    #3404712
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    On the downside, your wife is right, Nick. That is one ugly poncho.

    #3404719
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Ugly is good, people avoid me.

    I should have mentioned that deserts in the southwest are the best place to hike because there are millions and millions of acres to walk and very few people to judge my ugly gear ?

    #3404722
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    “Ugly is good, people avoid me.”

    I don’t know Nick, in that picture of you leaning against the tree you kinda have a ‘come hither’ look/pose going on….

    #3404731
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Oh Nick, you and i both know that you loved telling me that. ; )   That come hither look in the pic that Doug commented on, is probably more specifically, “Come hither and let me tell you the ancient, high wisdom of Nick, oh young ones.”  The wizard’s enticement/enchantment. (You do look a little like Saruman in the Lord of the Ring movies…)

    But more seriously, my previous statement was based on having read a number of your posts and how you have said that you hike a lot in the desert, really like the desert, etc, etc.  I didn’t ever doubt that you have taken it to other places (hell, even i’ve been to the desert on occasion for the flipside), or actually used it in rain, but i said “primarily” because of your many public statements about your desert hiking.

    Well, we both like ponchos.  I just don’t think cuben is an ideal material, nor does its properties justify the cost for same.  You think it’s the bee’s knees, ok, i suppose we’ll leave it at that.

    While i respect your opinion, i also respect Roger Caffin’s opinion on how well silnylon ponchos do as far as not snagging in bushwacking in tough terrain.  While i’m too lazy to search for such comments, i’m not making them up, nor imagining them.  And to me, it makes sense, considering that silicone is a low surface energy material.

    That’s what makes teflon pans non stick.  Teflon aka PTFE plastic and silicone, btw, have a very similar surface energy.

    And while woven fabrics certainly can catch more because of the spaces between fibers, a good silicone coating fills in most of that.   A lot of silicone waterproofed fabrics, feel kind of plastic’ky and slick to me and less like a woven fabric, because of the coating.

    So for us less affluent BPL members, we don’t have to lose heart and despair on the expense of Cuben and it’s magical properties, for silnylon and silpoly are perfectly acceptable, much more affordable fabrics for poncho’s.  And like i said, Tyvek Homewrap makes great rain skirts.

    Can i start calling you the Cuben Poncho Wizard?  Or CubePonchuman?

    Come on, am i the only one that sees the resemblance?  Just picture Saruman wearing a Cuben Poncho (echo, “O..Oh…oh…..oh…).

     

    #3404735
    jimmyjam
    BPL Member

    @jimmyjam

    Locale: Mid Atlantic

    I have a silnylon parcho I made from a quest outfitters kit and I love it. I mainly hike on the AT and have been thru some briars unscathed.

    #3404745
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    nm, edited it into my other post.

     

    #3404750
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Well, we both like ponchos. I just don’t think cuben is an ideal material, nor does its properties justify the cost for same. You think it’s the bee’s knees, ok, i suppose we’ll leave it at that.

    Sometimes there is theory and real world results that don’t match up.

    Recently there have been several threads about backpacks that can carry around 35 lbs total weight for extended trips. Two popular suggestions are HMG and Seek Outside. I have never used or even seen either. The Seek Outside packs “look like” they might hit all the checkboxes, and with my experience of backpack use, they seem like they might do what people say they do. I never express an opinion on Seek Outside or any other brand I have not used because of my lack of hands-on use makes me unqualified to comment.

    On other topics, let’s use water filters as an example, I have opinions based on alternative solutions. I have never used or owned a filter because my purification methods weigh less and pose no danger to my health. Again, an opinion based on experience in the field. If someone tells me they prefer filters because they are more convenient and are willing to carry the extra weight for the convenience, then I cannot argue against their preference based on their actual real world use. If someone says brand X filter is better than brand Z filter because it uses some technology or material that brand Z does not have, I cannot debate the merits of either. But I can say my solution works better for me and I have no rational reason to switch.

    No one here has a monopoly on knowledge, and there is no absolute right piece of gear or even right way to backpack. But I will always listen to people who have actual experience in the field with a specific piece of gear. Their solutions may not align with my style of hiking, and that does not make either of us right, wrong, superior, or inferior… just other options that may or may not work for others, but solutions that have been field tested and validated by an individual as best for them.

    Regarding cost… I never discount the value of a product based on cost. If I perceive an item is the best and is also the most expensive I will buy it if it solves a need and I can afford it. If I can’t afford it, I will save my money to purchase it, or I will pass because the perceived value does not justify its impact on my budget. I will never tell someone they shouldn’t buy something because it is too expensive for my budget.

    Back to the original post. For me, a Cuben poncho works best for me, and it works better for me than a silnylon, or even a PU coated nylon poncho, which I have also used, or even my military issued poncho. All based on experience, and I provided the reasons why. I have no opinion on a Packa, because I have never used one — reason being my solution works for me and is lighter than a Packa, so I have no motivation to try one. If a Packa checks all the boxes for someone, they should seriously consider purchasing one.

    #3404756
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “Sometimes there is theory and real world results that don’t match up.”

    Ok, tell Roger Caffin that both his extensive real world experience/results AND at the same time, material physics are completely wrong and that silnylon and other silicone coated fabrics catch on things significantly more than cuben fiber does.  Because that was my original in on this thread, and part of why i disagreed with you to begin with.

    Roger Caffin wrote,  ” 20D for up in the air, 40D for groundsheets.
    I worried about ponchos tearing on bushes, but in the field in the rain they slid over the scrub very easily. Never had a single tear.”

    Excerpted from https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/105528/

    There are more, but i’m lazy, and at this point, tired and about to go to bed.

     

     

    #3404760
    Sr Al
    BPL Member

    @douchepacker

    Locale: PNW

    I’d like to bring the IKEA $7 poncho to the table.  6.7oz on my scale.  Does the trick on a budget.

    #3404783
    jimmyjam
    BPL Member

    @jimmyjam

    Locale: Mid Atlantic

    My parcho is 8 oz. Packs away into its own pocket.

    #3404799
    Jonathon Self
    BPL Member

    @neist

    Locale: Oklahoma

    I like my STS Ultra-Sil poncho tarp well enough. Although, I should add that it weighs a bit less than they state. Mine’s only 185g (can’t remember if that’s including the tiny stuff sack or not).

    #3404803
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    The bright lines in this poncho are from the camera flash and are designed to reflect light.

    • Classic houndstooth pattern with interwoven reflective thread
    • Durable YKK zippers*
    • Magnetic arm closures
    • Elastic thumb loops for bike riding
    • Velcro Trim Tabs (sides)
    • Hood fitted to optimize peripheral vision and to fit under bike helmet
    • Waterproof (10K mm), sturdy polyester
    • All seam-sealed
    • Made in the USA
    • Weight 660 grams

    Cleverhood Rain Cape Website

     

     

    #3404831
    Ben C
    BPL Member

    @alexdrewreed

    Locale: Kentucky

    I retract my earlier statement about the cuben poncho being ugly.  This cape far exceeds the cuben poncho in a weird fashion contest.  Bravo, Nick!  (I know, you don’t care if it’s ugly).


    @Doug
    , great eye on the seductive pose against the tree.  I generally have to go to a gentleman’s club to see a pole used so well.


    @Justin
    , you could have entertained us a little better with some amateur use of photoshop to combine those photos.  Also, I’ll tell you later about my new shoes with cuben soles.  You’ve got to have a pair.

    #3404881
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Too right Ben, but i lack such basic skills/knowledge : (

    Hah, ; ) i await with bated breath, the virtues extolled of the cuben soled shoes…

    Btw, thank you for the feedback earlier.

    A quick follow up on my last reply to Nick. Earlier you mentioned cat’s claw and the cuben poncho better resisting puncture when both silnylon and the cuben are pressed against it.  That makes sense to me, as you also noted, it’s a film and has less space for a pointed object to go through.

    But puncture resistance and abrasion resistance are two different processes and issues. Abrasion resistance is characterized by one surface rubbing another and producing wear.  What makes 1 oz/yd2 cuben good for puncture resistance, also is it’s achilles heal abrasion wise–two thin films in which UHMWPE high tenacity fibers are sandwiched between.

    Just wearing clothes and having them rub against each other, against you, potentially produces some abrasion wear.  Just stuffing a fabric into a pack, pulling it out, etc also potentially produces abrasion wear.  Most woven materials can handle that fine, and tightly woven, silicone coated nylon in particular has high abrasion resistance for it’s weight. Thin films tend to not handle such normal, everyday abrasion all that well.

    I hope that some day they make some materials out of woven UHMWPE high tenacity fiber, with one thin film of UHMWPE pressure/mild-heat fused to one side.  Such a material wiould truly be the bee’s knees in many areas/regards.  It will make cuben fiber look chumpish in comparison.  Such a material could get very low weight (like .25 oz/yd2), and still have high tear resistance, good abrasion resistance (put the non film side out), very high waterproofness, etc.

    The future of SUL.  And something i wouldn’t mind paying good money for, since it would fulfill my durability ideals, while also being very light weight.

    #3404911
    Mario Caceres
    BPL Member

    @mariocaceres

    Locale: San Francisco

    Nick, that cleverhood rain cape looks interesting (if someone is interested in a poncho only, not a tarp-poncho).  If you were to open up the cape flat in the ground, would it be a circle or oval?.   At 660gr It’s  on the heavy side  but maybe the design can be MYOG-ed  with lighter materials?. I like the way it drapes.

    #3405176
    Donna M
    BPL Member

    @senderista

    I have a Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape Tarp Poncho. I’ve only set it up once as a tarp, and worn it once very briefly as a poncho. I heated up to the point where I had to take it off a few minutes later, but it seemed overly complicated as a poncho, and too long, even when I tried to use as many of the snap loops as I could to pull it up. I’m 5’6″. I’m not in love with it, but I don’t want to carry the weight and bulk of a tent. In a pinch if it starts raining it would be better than nothing.


    @namelessway
    Matt Dirksen, I have a SMD Gatewood Cape. Do you use yours regularly as your shelter?

    I’m not in love with mine yet, I haven’t used it much. I got the stake kit for it too. I haven’t yet figured out the best way to stake it out. Here in northern Baja California the soil is usually sandy with lots and lots of rocks. To the point where it’s a real challenge finding a place where I can actually drive the stake down into the ground far enough. In the cases when I can find a clear vertical path without rocks, it’s sand so the stakes pull out fairly easily. It did hold up well the one time I used it, even though it was quite windy. Only came down once in the night when my dog knocked my hiking pole out. It was easy enough to put that back in place without having to get out of my sleeping bag.

    #3405198
    Link .
    BPL Member

    @annapurna

    Gatewood cape not Gateway, after Grandma Gatewood

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