Topic

Square tarp – where do I locate internal tie-outs?


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Square tarp – where do I locate internal tie-outs?

Viewing 7 posts - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3367157
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    I’m planning on ordering a square tarp for solo use soon, probably 8ft 6″ or so square, at most 9 ft square, minimum 8 ft square.

    I’m 5 ft 8.5 ” the last time I checked. No dog. Always use a bivy bag as well.

    I want mid-panel tie-outs to the two sides when pitched in a common gable form, though these would also be used and want to work well in other pitches. Intuitively, I would place the four of them at the quarter points of the tarp, i.e. 1/4 and 3/4 across the total width, and along the total length [in coordinates for say a theoretical 4×4 tarp centered at (0,0): (-1,+1), (+1,+1), (-1,-1), (+1,-1), where the tarp extends from (-2,-2) to (+2,+2) i.e. the quarter points in two-dimensions. So for an 8 x 8 tarp, these would be 2 ft. in from both edges for each corner].

    But this location disregards the effects of the edge of the tarp, which is not part of an infinite array of tarps! Obviously the wind will behave differently either side of an edge (tarp :: non-tarp). I notice from photos of various tarps (MLD, HMG, Zpacks) that these tie-outs seem not to be located by these manufacturers at the precise quarter points, but are moved somewhat (by a couple of inches or more). The diagram by Ryan J. of tie-outs and guylines in Tarp Camping Techniques for Inclement Conditions at https://backpackinglight.com/tarp_camping_inclement_conditions/ , and reused in the OutdoorGearLab review at http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Tent-Reviews/Hyperlite-Mountain-Gear-Square-Flat-Tarp , clearly shows this; and to complicate matters, this and some of the photos I’ve seen suggest that the points are displaced from the theoretical quarter points differently on the two axes, and might even be further differentiated between the front and back of the tarp (so mirror image one axis, not so on the other axis). This could well be deliberate, as one would expect different effects along the gable and transverse to it, and between front and back. Or it might not be, and I’m just being pedantic. My Internet searches are not turning up anything helpful.

    So – is this deliberate, to get a better pitch – and if so, are there guidelines or rules-of-thumb for locating these four points (on a Square Tarp), beyond just using the quarter points? (Just to be clear, I am NOT referring to the tie-outs along the ridge line in the gable pitch, though I would expect to include those at 1/4 and 3/4 of the ridge, maybe at the center as well).

    I would be grateful for any advice I could apply when specifying the design. Many thanks!

    #3367163
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    nm

     

    #3367166
    Ryan Jordan
    Admin

    @ryan

    Locale: Central Rockies

    @rmeurant I’ve experimented with a few different options and finally settled on this one:

    based on the assumption that there are lines of tension along the edges and ridgeline (dotted line) and the placement of the four mid-point tie-outs as shown in the diagram above makes them equidistantly spaced in between those lines of tension.

    I have a feeling that there may be some other practical considerations but this layout has provided me with enough flexibility in various tarp pitches (A, modified A/lean-to, lean-to, flying diamond, etc.) not to desire something else. Or, at least, until I see someone else’s better design :D

    #3367187
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    Thanks for your insight Ryan.

    These integer (rational) relationships fascinate me, following on from research into traditional (sacred) and structural geometry, particularly the insights of Lund, and later authors (especially Tons Brunes) who explored the harmonic subdivision of the square and its application thru rectangles and applying the deeper projective relationships to the harmonic composition of art and architecture and perspective drawing.

    I’d like to integrate fifths into the composition as well, as the square subdivides into halves, thirds, quarters and fifths etc. thru the double square diagonals. For example, it would be interesting to get those /5 diagonals working as ridge lines/folds. But clearly the tarp design needs first to work well in practice.

    I’d like to also ask, if I may, if you still regard the 8 ft square as the ideal size for solo use? (Rather than a little larger). But I suspect this integration of a new website is totally time consuming! Thanks!

    #3367419
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    The internal tie outs can vary from place to place and on what weather conditions you are facing/expecting for the night. I prefer to be dry under my tarp while I sleep, and, have a place to sit & make a cup of cocoa/coffee…often a whole supper or breakfast. I simply tie off a light piece of line between a couple permanently mounted loops (as needed) and string a line. Then I can place my head where-ever under the tarp and clip my net to the new line as needed. You may need to do a half-witch loop to get the netting to stay put, but it works for me. I usually bring some extra line with me for hanging wet items anyway. I suppose you could mark the spot on the tarp and sew on a permanent loop, since the weight is against any staking and I often tie off to the one I have near the center.  Any heat from cooking helps to dry stuff out, too.

     

    #3367421
    Ryan Jordan
    Admin

    @ryan

    Locale: Central Rockies

    Re: 8 ft or larger?

    I’m leaning larger these days. I had an 8 ft Zpacks square tarp but found it to be a little restrictive in foul weather.

    Since then, I’ve switched to the Hyperlite Mountain Gear 8’6″ square tarp. What has impressed me most about this one in particular is the manufacturing quality. I love being able to crank the guylines down tight or weather a stout storm withiut having to worry about the seams or tie outs blowing out. Not all Cuben shelters are made the same…!

    #3367476
    rmeurant
    BPL Member

    @rmeurant

    Locale: Laniakea

    James – Sorry, by “internal” I meant not on the edges, but still on the outside of the tarp – mid-panel pull-outs. But I take your point – or rather line!

    Ryan – Again, I appreciate the benefit of your extensive experience. I’m leaning towards having Locus Gear make me a square version of their new cuben Tarp X Duo CTF3-B, in black cuben in the same weight as my Khufu, which I’ve had in pretty strong gusty conditions. Though HMG certainly does appeal. Or I’ll knock up a rough MYOG instead. The problem is in Korea, wilderness campsites are usually pretty confined (because of the terrain) – it’s not unusual to go for hours with no pitchable site (unless it’s army foxholes, or on the ridgeline and hence on animal trails – risking boars crashing past and roaring stags challenging one’s intrusion). I’m interested to know what Japanese ULs are preferring in their country, where I understand campsites are also usually small (because of crowding). I’d be interested to learn Ito’s opinion on the use of tarps there…

Viewing 7 posts - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...