"Older backpackers"-What concessions are you willing to make as you age?

[Geoff Caplan]

People are misunderstanding the nature of the FDA disclaimer on the NTFactor website.

Nutritional supplements are not intended for the treatment of disease. They are intended to complement the treatment of disease, and therefore don’t even fall under the purview of pharmaceutical licensing.

Licensing supplement claims costs tens of millions of dollars. There are many well proven and effective nutraceuticals that are not formally licensed. There is no surgical procedure that is formally licensed either – does that mean that surgeons are selling snake oil? There are other sources of evidence.

For reasons that escape me, you guys are accusing the most cited authority in the field of cell biology, the editors of reputed journals, and centres of excellence such as the Anderson and the Mayo of effectively conspiring to abuse patients. Do you really think that’s likely? Exactly what standard of proof are you expecting here?

By the way, don’t put too much weight on the licensing processes – they are much more to do with big pharma protecting their monopolies than with patient welfare. When I approached the leading consultant in the UK for advice on a licensing process he told me that he was leaving the industry because he simply couldn’t cope with the corruption any longer – a position he explained in eye-opening detail. In recent years almost 600 approved drugs have been withdrawn because they have proven unsafe or ineffective in practice. Large class actions for falsification of evidence are common. Good physicians don’t rely blindly on the FDA licencing process. And the physicians at facilities such as the Anderson and the Mayo are good physicians.

https://academic.oup.com/nar/article/44/D1/D1080/2502677#
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

Larry – you can make your own mind up. But for zero risk and the cost of a daily cup of coffee, you can try a supplement that may well reduce the unpleasantness of your treatment and get you back to the hills more quickly. And despite the naysayers here, this is a position that is enthusiastically supported by the clinic that achieves the best outcomes in the USA.

[MJ H]

It kind of reads like Dr. Nicolson wrote his own Wikipedia page.

[AK Granola]

Okay, Geoff, fair enough. I  did some more research on Garth Nicholson and his “institute.” Take a look at his Institute of Molecular Medicine website. First glance, it looks like the web page of a TV preacher. I would think he would try to have as slick a site as Dr. Oz or Dr. Amen. But don’t judge a book by its cover. Second, look at the institute’s advisory boards. Who is on these boards? No names. Strange isn’t it. Compare that with the Mayo Clinic website, where you can quickly and easily find out who’s who. Look at the educational program the institute offers. Has any real, actual medical organization accredited this program? By the way I’ve contacted the U.S. Department of State to see if they actually “approved” the institute’s educational program as the website claims; I’ll let you know what I find out.

The institute claims a number of “departments” – who works in these departments and what are their credentials? The most hilarious sentence was this one: “Where ever possible, computers are used to link various members of the Institute with each other…” novel idea. He probably doesn’t think anyone is reading the fine print. Maybe in 1996, it really was a novel idea (probably not).

Then take a look at the illnesses for which this supposed institute has supposed clinical trials. Notice that for every illness, the only information provided was written by the same person, Garth Nicholson. Don’t most scientists cite the work of others? Is he really the de facto expert on every autoimmune illness and infectious disease? So says he. Who writes the newsletters? Only Dr Nicholson (and his wife).

Check out the “letters” section. Classic technique of scammers, include only first name and initial and make them non verifiable. Worthless.

He is an anti-vaccer! Aughh! If that doesn’t scream quack I don’t know what does.

Signs and symptoms, he can cure everything from chest pain to flatulence. I wouldn’t even trust this guy with my flatulence.

Look at the “clinical testing” the institute recommends. Without even knowing you as a patient, they are ready to recommend specific tests you should have, and you contact the lab directly for a sample kit, you don’t go through your doctor. Medicine by mail. If every case of RA could be cured this way, would anyone still be suffering?

He may be a real doctor. So is Dr. Oz, who lied to Congress under oath. So is Dr. Amen, who also can cure anything you have with his one simple method (and is raking in millions). Real physicians who have gone the way of greed, to take advantage of people who are suffering.  For the price of a cup of coffee, just have a nice cup of coffee, and then go to your real live, licensed doctor.

[Geoff Caplan]

Karen

My last post on the subject, as this is entering the twilight zone…

Yes -the websites are rubbish These people are not into marketing – they don’t need to be. Dr Nicholson is one of the most important and celebrated scientists in his field, recognised and honoured by the  US government, but the US armed forces, and by his peers around the world.

Here is a small selection of the positions and awards held by the man you choose to slander as a quack and are equating to Dr Oz. These are taken from the links I cited to you:

• Senior Research Associate at the Salk Institute , where he authored the most cited scientific paper of all time
• Head of the Cancer Council Laboratory
• Professor in the Department of Developmental and Cell Biology at UC Irvine.
• Professor of Cancer Research at the University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, the #1 rated oncology clinic in the USA, where he developed NT Factor.
• Professor and Chairman of Tumor Biology at The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center.
• Conjoint Professor in the Faculty of Science and Technology at the University of Newcastle, Australia.
• Founding Editor of the Cancer and Metastasis Reviews
• Author of over 600 peer reviewed papers
• Innovative Medicine Award of Canada
• Stephen Paget Award of the Metastasis Research Society
• Albert Schweitzer Award
• Colonel (Honorary) of the U. S. Army Special Forces & SEAL (Honorary) of the U.S. Navy Special Forces, for his work on Gulf War Syndrome
• Burroughs Wellcome Medal of the Royal Society of Medicine
• Outstanding Faculty Award from The University of Texas
• National Cancer Institute/National Institutes for Health Outstanding Investigator Award
• President of the Metastasis Research Society
• Board of Directors of the American Association for Cancer Research
• Annual Award of the Japan Histochemical Society
• Presidential Award of the Electron Microscopy Society of America

As I’ve stated, NT Factor has been used and endorsed by the Anderson, the Mayo and many other centers of excellence for decades, helping tens of thousands of patients. But apparently the distinguished physicians and pharmacists prescribing and endorsing NT Factor are all deluded and you know better.

All I can say is that I’m glad I’m not in your critical thinking class…

[David Thomas]

Back to concessions I’m willing to make as an older hiker:

I’m willing to swallow my pride and let more studlier hikers like Manfred and David Gardner pack out heavier loads of meat.

[MJ H]

Linus Pauling was a genius in his field, won the Nobel twice (chemistry, peace), and still found time to be absolutely (and provably) bonkers on Vitamin C.

[BlackHatGuy]

“Back to concessions I’m willing to make as an older hiker:”

I’m finally willing to admit that I’m a cantankerous pain in the ass, something I never would have admitted when I was younger.

[M B]

Concessions?

Decent inflatable pad for sleep

Ccf sit pad for breaks

Some lower mileage days if i feel like it

Better food

PLB because $hit happens to men 50-up, and ive still got $100,000 of college and grad school expenses people expect me to pay for for them.

 

 

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

Decent inflatable pad for sleep
Yes!

Ccf sit pad for breaks
Yes

Better food
Yes

And maybe a bit more planning beforehand.

Cheers

[MJ H]

I’m thinking the best concession to aging would be getting a pack goat to carry your stuff.  I don’t think it is legal on the local trails here, but I could travel west.

[Geoff Caplan]

MJH – I knew someone would bring that up. Linus Pauling was a genius physicist who stayed into medicine. Garth Nicolson is a seminal expert on the biology of the cell wall who developed a supplement to support the functioning of the cell wall. There’s a difference, don’t you think?

[MJ H]

No, I don’t.  I think it would be convincing to link to studies about NT Factor instead of listing a CV and yelling at the FDA.  I popped “Nicolson G” and “NT Factor” into the search engines and saw only four published articles.  None of them were about treating any condition. I searched the Mayo site for anything with his name and found nothing at all.  I decided it was not worth pursing the search further.

[BlackHatGuy]

Perhaps the fruitless back and forth on NTFactor could recede, as it’s really not getting anywhere.

Larry, best of luck with your treatment. It might be worthwhile to ask you doc about NTFactor (or perhaps lipid replacement therapy in general) and get his/her opinion instead of taking either side in this forum. Certainly doesn’t hurt to simply ask and get your professional’s opinion.

[Larry Swearingen]

Thank you for the well wishes and believe me I’m not taking any medical advice from a

backpacking forum.   That’s what the doctor gets paid for.

Larry

BTW  Linus Pauling was a Physical Chemistry GOD in the 70’s (I was a Chem major then) but nobody professional paid much attention to his Vitamin C proclamations.  He came close to figuring out DNA too but Watson and Crick beat him to it with some unpublished information from a woman x-ray crystalography physicist.  Sorry can’t remember her name now.

Larry

[MJ H]

Rosalind Franklin.

[Jane Baack]

Larry, I’m sorry that the hiking plans you wrote about just two months ago have had to be changed due to higher PSA scores. However, going through radiation shortly may mean you can start getting into shape sooner, post-surgery, and still get in some hiking/backpacking this summer. Your goals haven’t changed, just the timing. You may not be able to do all that you planned but you sure have the motivation to take post-treatment rehab. seriously. Good luck with your upcoming treatments and keep us posted on your altered plans for hikes.

I agree with Doug. Larry and his doctors will make decisions that are appropriate for his situation. No need to continue discussion of alternative treatments.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I’m sensing a bit of thread drift here.

Jus’ saying’… ;o)

[Tim Cheek]

Concessions? That’s a glass half empty question! I’ll call them adaptations.

I have two hiking paces: slow and slower (no more high altitude headaches and why count miles).

I use my Scout packraft to cross lakes in the Wind River Range to rest sore feet and avoid loose and steep talus slopes. (I make up time and am able to access off trail routes.)

I now use trekking poles on downhill sections (I’m at stage 4 in knee cartilage) and carry them up hills, but the poles also support the tent and convert to paddles for the packraft.

I spend more time in camp, but bring my Kindle and zero chair.

I earned a lot of 50 miler badges decades ago as a Scout, I’m 59 now, I don’t need them anymore…

 

[David Thomas]

“My last post on the subject”

That word you keep using (last)?  I do not think it means what you think it means.

[obx hiker]

I’ll jump into this one. Why not? WTF?  Today is my 66th. 66 on 5/6

1. Read book  “Younger Next Year” Gift from wonderful wife of 34 years  ( on 5/19….. along with Harry and Megan…… good day for Megan’s….. best day of my life!) but I digress.
2. Work Out!
3. Work Out!  Speaking of working out. YMMV but I favor a mix of Weights, Cardio (spinning, running or road biking) and Yoga. The weights and part of the cardio come form a sort of standardized and nationally syndicated?….. routine set to music and done as a group exercise called “Group Power”  I’m an unabashedly big fan of this program. It was introduced to our local Y by our excellent group exercise director; who also gave the book mentioned above to my wife. We have an EXCELLENT Y of which I am also an unabashed fan or maybe even zealot. I made more progress in YOGA after @ 3 months in <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>group power</span> than I’d made in @ the previous 2 years as an ex. Just in case anyone wants some ideas.
4. Wider Pad
5. And better food…. but less of it.

Also BTW in case it takes me awhile to catch up w/ work etc and post a trip report….. Water is REALLY low in Salt Creek in Needles below @ Angel Arch. Don’t see how it isn’t close to dry by June. Just a FYI heads up!

 

 

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

To respond to the original question, my partner is 67 and has heart problems, arrhythmia mostly. He tends to abort his trips on the first day lately. I thought about this recently on our most recently aborted trip together while I hiked on without him that perhaps what we should do is plan trips where there is no pressure. We drive to some nice place and do day hikes, keeping our backpacking gear available. If he’s feeling good we can backpack with no itinerary, no pressure to make a lot of miles. Avoid hiking in stressful conditions like too much heat, not enough shade. I’m willing to do this myself because car-camping can be fun and even adventurous and you can go get a craft beer so easily afterward.

[David W]

I just wanted to say thanks for this insight. As I get older and need to consider changes I need to still enjoy my backpacking experience. This discussion has provided insight I need. I do like the idea of using a hammock for sleeping as a change that would be beneficial for my back. Having said that, no need to wait to our later years to make that change. ;)

[Gary Dunckel]

Concessions? Do I really have to (so I thought)? 5 years ago I did my last month-long intensive backpacking adventure. That was to score my dream list of splendid backcounty campsites in Yellowstone. I went into the month with a body weight of ~180#, and I came out of it at 170#. I was into caloric debt from hiking every day for 28 days. When I wasn’t backpacking, I would do laundry and then snag a decent day hike somewhere. At the end, I decided that there was no real reason to put that weight back on, as 170# was a pretty good weight for my 6′ frame. All was well…

Then in December of 2016, my annual blood work confirmed that I was in fact a type 2 diabetic. My A1c had been flirting with that for 12 years, being in the range of 6.5-7.5. Not actually so great, but I was in a state of denial, because, you see, I always thought that I would live forever. Well the Dec. ’16 A1c was a whopping 10.2, which is of course in the category of “if you don’t change your ways, you will self-destruct.” I let the metformin pills do their magic for three months, to see just what effect they had. I didn’t change my diet or my exercise regimen. The next test was 8.9 – better, but not at all good enough. So I took total charge of things (diet and constant exercise) to see how I could bring the numbers down. My next test was 6.8, then 6.5, and another 6.5 three months later. My MD said I was just fine at that point, but I wasn’t satisfied yet. I wanted to see just how low I could get my A1c. In April, it was down to 5.8, and I’m now on track to get it to maybe 5.5 this July.

However, there has been a cost through my effort to lower my A1c levels. I am heavily focused on getting an hour or more of exercise every day (mostly brisk walking in my local open spaces), and I am extremely anal about trying to minimize my carbohydrate intake. The result of this lifestyle is that I’ve lost 25 more pounds of body weight, as I seem to be exercising more than my intake of calories compensates for. Food is not very interesting to me right now, because of my obsession of minimizing anything that might raise my blood glucose levels. I can only eat so many avocados, nuts, cheese, low-carb/high fat & protein shakes, and salad stuff, and I truly miss having a beer and a piece of chocolate cake (but NOT at the same time!).

So this will remain a work in process, as I find the balance between exercise and caloric intake. My doc thinks I would be totally fine with an A1c in the range of 6.0-6.5, so my goal now is to put some weight back on. That would mean more calories taken in, and a bit less exercise. And an occasional luxury meal thrown in once in awhile…

How does this affect my backpacking? Well, right now I wouldn’t be comfortable doing one of my epic month-long series of hiking trips, as I have done for the last 12 years. When doing that in my favorite haunts of Glacier N.P, Yellowstone, and also here in CO, that means staying in cheap motels and eating mostly restaurant food or pizza – not exactly healthy fare. I figure that I can do 2-3 night trips, where I can eat whatever I want, and then return to a more healthy diet when I get home. Another thing that I will have to compromise on is the extra weight of certain food carried – avocados aren’t exactly UL.

So, no, I’m not yet at the point where I want to be. But I am getting there, slowly. My goal has been to see just how low I could bring my A1c down, and then I could modify what I am doing to gain some weight and enjoy eating again. After all, I am 72 years old, so I really just need to fix things so that diabetes doesn’t mess with me for the next 10-15 years.

I am just happy that I have already had enough adventures to last a lifetime. I have seen nearly all of the planet’s greatest hits and I have backpacked a couple hundred nights in some very beautiful places. The other blessing is that I have a nearly perfect autobiographical memory, such that I can vividly remember almost everything that I have experienced in my life (from age 4 to now). That comes in handy when I am snow-bound at home in the winter, and I can simply close my eyes and recall my trek to Everest base camp, or the hike to the Paine Towers, or climbing Ayer’s Rock.

[Gerry B.]

Concessions?

1. My big one was to no longer take my body for granted.  This year I turned 60.  In years past I did little training for hikes and got by with no real exercise program.  I am thin and a good walker by nature.  But last November I decided to join a new gym in town and got serious about fitness for the first time in nearly 30 years.  I have lost 8 lbs, mostly around the belly and have surprisingly dropped my total cholesterol by nearly 50 points to a reasonable 166.   Last month I did a test hike on a difficult trail in Arkansas, the Athens-Big Fork Trail, a nine mile each way trail with 2,600′ elevation gain each way.  I did it one way in just over 4 hours, my best time yet and was by far the fastest hiker on the trail.  Some 40 year old guy asked me my age and and when I told him he responded by saying “Wow, I sure hope I can still hike this trail when I’m YOUR age”.  I smiled but inwardly wanted to give him the finger! :-)  My strength and cardio health is the best it’s been since I was in my 30’s.
2. Hike your own hike.  My four hiking buddies from my teen years and I get together annually for a reunion hike each year.  But a couple of the guys over the last few years have gained a lot of weight, not gotten into shape at all, and have slowed down a lot, and thus want to do much lower mileage at a much slower pace that what I like to do.   So instead of getting frustrated, I decided to skip this year’s hike with them and instead have signed up for one of BPL’s adventure treks in the Beartooth’s in September.

Last year I had the privilege of meeting one of my hiking heroes, Nimblewill Nomad.  He only started backpacking when he retired at the age of 59.  He is now 79 and still does long-distance hikes, last year walking the length of Route 66 from Chicago to LA.  I will never even want to attempt the many tens of thousands of miles he has walked but nevertheless he is my hiking inspiration.  Regardless of my age I hope I am able to enjoy a good walk, long or short, until the day I die!

 

[steven w]

Lucky me, at 67, thru no fault of my own, I have been getting the same advice from my doctor…whatever you are doing, keep it up. What have I been doing?  Pretty much nothing especially healthy, lots of sugar, burnt meat, sporatic exercise but I think the main thing is major stress avoidance.

So for example, last year I take off on my first solo AT hike with a 40lb pack(160lb me) and despite only hiking around the paved sidewalks of my neighborhood for prep(worthless beyond helping knees and ankles experience the new level of stress) the week before, I did 70 mile in 5 days plus 2 half days without a sore muscle, ache and not even any minor tweaks from the trail….this in record 90-100* temps. For me it was all about taking it easy to start out and gradually ramping up the effort as my body acclimated. Which it did to a surprising extent- by the end jogging with 35lbs was easy and comfortable. One secret to that being fun even with the heat was taking a very refreshing shower every other day using my Dromedary with hose, it really washed away any fatigue and general discomfort and made sleeping much more effective recharge.

My concession this year for a 9-10 day no resupply outing is to cut my pack weight to 30lbs and buy some trail runners to increase nimbleness vs heavy Merrell hiking shoes and hopefully avoid temps quite as high by going out early June instead of catching an Oct heatwave.

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