New HMG Dirigo 2

[Po]

Hi Dan,

Yes I’m aware and those are fine designs for certain conditions. There is still strong likelihood of a tear in a number of ways. A corner stake blows out and leaves the tent violently flapping and wrenching the canopy from the weighted down tent floor perhaps. Mesh tears apart at the seams very easily. I personally appreciate this more streamlined and durable design.

As for blowing sand and snow. Yes I realize that some can still enter under the vestibules, but the amount that makes it through the vestibule and then the mesh will be minimal and less direct. In the case of sand I just want to minimize the amount that hits my face while sleeping. In the case of snow camping I see this as a solo model in which case you can sleep right in the middle far from the open vestibule edges and spindrift. Pitching on snow is another scenario in which mesh in that low gap area could easily become frozen to ice and snow. Not trying to open this up to serious winter scrutiny, just sharing observations.

Thanks but no actually I don’t need or want a specialized tent with zero mesh to deal with conditions I’m very familiar with. I’ll trust in my own experiences and judgement to select versatile gear that aligns well with my own desired level of protection and comfort.

This appeals to me as a versatile and dependable wind worthy solo shelter with the occasional 2nd occupant, in which case it’s a fairly high volume shelter.

I ain’t trying to sell this thing to anybody, most likely not even myself. But I appreciate some potentially very notable advantages of it’s design that could put it in a category of its own if proven through testing.

[Roger Caffin]

In the case of snow camping I see this as a solo model in which case you can sleep right in the middle far from the open vestibule edges and spindrift.
ROTFLMAO
You have never met real spindrift in real wind if you think this!

Real spindrift will go straight through any mesh and cover your entire sleeping bag with snow. This what real spindrift can do in a few hours:

This is at the LEE end of my tent when the windward end was not adequately blocked off with a sod cloth. The spindrift slipped in a narrow gap as a fine powder and blew down the length of the tent. I repeat: in a few hours!

Cheers

[James Marco]

Yes, I agree with Po, generally. What is a tent designed to do?
1) Provide a roof over you and your gear while sleeping.
2) Keep you bug/varmint free while sleeping.
For the two main tasks of a tent, the Dirigo does both just fine. I guess most of us have been spoiled by the exceptionally light weight, extra features and niceties of what we consider UL gear. It is NOT a 4 season tent. (Mesh is always a big detriment on 4-season tents, usually turning them into three season tents. Indeed, some manufacturers will provide a second inner tent with a solid fabric for 4-season tents. Without snow skirts, or other means of blocking spin-drift, mesh is a poor choice.)

For UL travel, I would add light weight. As a complete kit, the Dirigo doesn’t do badly. With stakes, bag and cloths line it goes around 30-31oz, or, around 1pound per person. For UL travel this falls into Rule of Ones. For a Solo hiker, this is a bit much, though. A UL hiker wouldn’t likely carry this solo.

Some people really like two doors and separate side entrances, 1 per person. I do not. In most cases, they leave your feet, and head close to the sidewalls. In this case, it also leaves your bag/quilt vulnerable to weather whenever you open the doors. Through out the ADK’s, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, you can usually count on morning wetness, either in the form of fog, mountain mist, or rain. When you open the exterior door, wetness will fall into the tent. Not Good. Condensation has already been mentioned. (A good way to alleviate this is to simply use a second 5-6oz tarp over one of the doors. Note this also supplies an area for cooking. But this comes at additional weight.) Not that most pyramids have a similar problem and I don’t use those, generally.

Durability? Well the Dirigo looks to be very durable. But, without 5 years of using one, I cannot really say. Since I head out solo most of the time, I wouldn’t get that much use on it, it is just too heavy.

Nicetys? Well the top pocket is fine, wish there was two, lower down, though. Cloths Line? Good idea. Will things dry well in wet weather without ventilation? Hmmmm…it works well enough under a tarp with lots of ventilation, though. Wait and see on this one, it may not be usable without the doors being open…but it looks handy for socks, pants and shirt.

Overall, If I was traveling with my wife or one of my daughters, this looks like a good usable tent.

[Po]

Hi Roger,

Thank you for correcting my assertion that this is a high altitude 4-season mountain tent. No! I didn’t make that claim. I have 4 season tunnel tent. But there is quite a bit of middle ground before I need or want to carry it solo by default to be safe and comfortable, even with the possibility of high wind and manageable spindrift.

 

 

[[ Drew ]]

In reply to William Clinton:

There is a niche market for people who camp in high altitude, relatively dry climates, who don’t cook inside the tent and never spend time sitting in it. My wife and I may be a niche of one (in tent terms), but those our our conditions June through to October.

I think this “niche market” doesn’t exist.  Listing all of the drawbacks and failings with the Dirigo 2 attempting to rationalize them by describing/creating said niche market is a bit silly.

Many of the other listed shelters, like the Duplex, Ultamid, and Stratospire would all serve this fictional niche market much better, and serve the traditional markets even more so.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Po

My comments were mainly aimed at novices reading our Forum, not at you. We do see kids going up in the mountains with utterly inappropriate gear sometimes, and that can lead to ‘problems’. We don’t want too many corpses laid at our doors!

Cheers

[Hanz B]

Actually a little concerned after hearing about said niche for Dir2 that my duplex + flex (0.74 dyneema) is not appropriate for some specific exposures or exposed altitude. I’ve taken my solplex to some fairly exposed locations and it’s held up fine, not my duplex as much yet. Can anyone arguing this niche that the Dir2 is filling help me define scenarios in which my duplex + flex would not be appropriate so I can be aware of that in the future?

Thanks,

hanz

[Mark]

I think there is a difference between a tent failing and being able to spend a comfortable night in it

I would not under any circumstances chose to take my Duplex if high winds are forecast

I’m not concerned about it failing, i’m more concerned with the doors flapping and not being able to pitch it low in limpet mode as the mesh at the head/foot end pulls the bathtub floor flat

I don’t see the flex poles fixing either of these problems

 

The TT DCF tents use 0.51oz, i would not buy a 0.51oz DCF tent personally

Thier vents are at a poor angle to and wind and are way too big IMO as well

I was excited about the Dirigo, it ticks many of my ideal tent boxes, having the bathtub attatched directly to the fly rules me out though.

No vents, can’t have the doors open if it’s raining due to the angles, and a breathable panel will do nothing once it’s “wetout”, seems like the designers put a lot of thought into condensation, and how best to cause it, then have your sleeping bag soak it up.

If they ditched the breathable panels and used the same DCF as the rest of the outter, then used a mesh for the head/foot end like the duplex, but left enough so it could be pitched fly to the floor, i recon i’d sell all my other tents for this, as it is, i’ll wait till something better comes along

[Geoff Caplan]

Mark

The breathable panels seem like an expensive gimmick.

It’s an exotically costly fabric (around $60 per yard at retail) and it’s hard to see how you’re going to generate the pressure differential needed to drive moisture through the membrane in a voluminous tent as compared to a tight fitting garment.

And as you say, that’s assuming it hasn’t wetted out.

[Franco Darioli]

TT DCF

“Thier vents are at a poor angle to and wind and are way too big IMO as well”

Funny that on a different forum I thought you meant those vents were too small…

I would not mind your opinion on these ones then :

Still I am not sure if you realise those TT  vents are to let warm air out not to catch incoming cold air .

[Mark]

Hi Franco,

Of course, I’m only expressing my opinion based upon the conditions I’ve experienced, after saying that..

I feel that when closed the vents on the TT DCF kit are positioned at an angle that will act as an air scoop

A decent gust of strong wind and I’d be concerned about 0.51oz DCF at that angle failing, to clarify I’m thinking really strong winds.

The A panels on the SS1/SS2 are pulled into a 1/2 pyramid type shape

With the bottom of the A pitched out a little more than shown in the pic, it’s an aerodynamic well-supported shape of continuous fabric that handles the wind well, this is a better shaper and design IMO

It’s made worse just by the sheer size of the vents and their proximity to the bathtub

If it’s raining and windy I can’t see how there is any way the rain won’t blow into the bathtub with the vent that size.

To be transparent, I’ve not seen any of the TT DCF tents in person

I have had problems with the wind causing flapping on the SS2 A sections on bad pitches (squeezing into a small pitch, rocks, rocks under peg points), it wasn’t anything more than noisy so no drama, but with the DCF tents having bigger vents (or seeming bigger as they’re closer to the bathtub, the fabric being inside the A rather than flush and having velcro as support, it’s enough to stop me buying any of them (that and they’re made of 0.52oz DCF)

As for what other tents and are doing, to be honest, and blunt, I don’t care

If I feel a tent does not meet my requirements then I don’t care what other tent manf’s are doing, I judge a tent on IF I feel it will do what I want out of a tent, and it’s design/materials giving me enough confidence to part with my money

So far the TT DCF products and the Dirigo do not give me that confidence, so my money stays in my bank

I’m not saying they won’t work or will fail, I’m just saying I don’t believe they’ll work for enough FOR ME to gamble my money

[Jacob]

Geoff Caplan,

I too am wondering how a significant enough pressure differential will exist, especially since people often complain actual vents to be inadequate in some tents.

However, I’m under the impression (someone please correct me if I’m wrong) that the DCF-WPB fabric being used for the ventilation panels is the same fabric Locus gear is using in some pyramid tents and HMG used in the shell rain jacket. Its face fabric is a non-woven polyester that doesn’t wet out. Locus gear claims the material makes a ‘dream tent’

[Hudson Gardner]

Hey Mark, those end vents on the TT Stratospire Li are closeable. They have “storm flaps” that seal them totally.

And to everyone else: I have a funny story. I was camping on an island in Maine near Rockport last summer. I was walking the perimeter of it when I came across two HMG Duomids and a strange looking one person tent. The one person tent was the Dirigo, and the person using it was the girl who designed it. I chatted with her for a bit about it, and just assumed it was a 1P because of the size. I honestly had no clue it would even fit two people, looking at it. She said it was targeted at thru-hikers. So there you have it, from the horse’s mouth so to speak. It’s basically a 1+ tent targeted at thru hikers. Hope this clears up some confusion. Very nice person, by the way. And I think her designs are cool. I have an ultamid.

[Hanz B]

<p style=”text-align: center;”>Hudson +1 – and if it’s really looking to market itself as a 1+ through hiking tent then maybe the reinforcements and heftiness would be valued more – def makes more sense then the small niche mentioned above.</p>
<p style=”text-align: center;”>- thinking out loud here –  locus gear is using a dcf-event so I’m assuming it’s that one bc locus fear say in the video that dyneema was developing it anyway.  Zpacks doing this for last gen wpb jackets right? I guess they had a small nylon surface fabric on that. That was a very breathable jacket when I had it. Anyway the reason I bring it up is because Ryan jordon mentioned in his winter video that an event Bivvy was a really the apex of moisture control in winter camping. Perhaps the event+dcf will prove to be a nice durability / breathability ratio for through hikers that aren’t once counters and winter campers.</p>

[William Chilton]

“The one person tent was the Dirigo, and the person using it was the girl who designed it. I chatted with her for a bit about it, and just assumed it was a 1P because of the size. I honestly had no clue it would even fit two people, looking at it.”

From what I’ve read, some of the people given prototypes to test last year were given a one person version of the Dirigo, so it is possible (but not certain) that what you saw was indeed a one person tent (unless she told you otherwise).

[Hudson Gardner]

William,

That might be the case. I didn’t ask if it was 1p or 2p, but it did have doors on either side, and dual vestibules. Also, my idea of a 2p might not be everyone’s. Me and my girlfriend are both 5’11” so the tents I choose typically have to be pretty large.

[William Chilton]

Two doors would seem to suggest a two-person model.

[Franco Darioli]

Gixer,

you were talking about the bottom vents ?

Well those are indeed there tho create air flow, however you can close them as the description under the photo you posted (from the TT product page) clearly states.

Anyway …

[David P]

Beating a dead horse but I am from Maine and I wouldn’t buy the Dirigo2… i agree with the fact that condensation will run right into the tub, angle of doors is off for precip entering tub, no peak vent,  the efficacy of the “breathable” panels seems far fetched despite the eVent, and mesh anything is a no-go In winter use for me. That said I do own a flat tarp by HMG that is well constructed and very caple for 3 seasons.

I have been using pyramid style shelters for 15 years in summers and winters here.  My current setups are a DCF Supermid for 2-3 people in winter or DCF Duomid for solo use. I had the fortune to sleep out in last years “Polar Vortex” with 60mph+ winds and 18”(40+cm) of snow, the Supermid is my safe haven. Pitching a bit tighter to the ground and packing  snow around the perimeter of the Mid where the air gap eliminates most spindrift for me. At 20oz (.56699kg) for Supermid it is comfortable for 3 with winter gear inside. I wouldn’t dream of lugging a heavier tent when this has performed so well for me. Or else… spindrift :•)

[Franco Darioli]

BTW, the Dirigo 2 looks like this :

[[ Drew ]]

@david-paradis

Do you have any video inside or outside the tent with the 60+ mph winds?  I’ve been trying to find a video of tents in that sort of wind speed, but I can’t find any.

[Po]

I owned a DCF Supermid for a few years and had it out in that kind of wind, though I never took video. It did well to a point. But it’s a big target, and the DCF has no stretch. I found that when the wind started to overwhelm the tent things got ugly. Violent and very jerky deflection, extreme strain put on the anchors. If the stakes do hold the force was great enough to often slip the guy line in the line locs. After a few wind storms like that and some snow loading I found that the DCF did stretch visibly in the areas around the corner tie outs where all the force was being applied. Once DCF stretches it doesn’t unstretch like sil nylon, it doesn’t ruin the shelter but it’s an oberservation. They can survive sustained 60mph but certainly not in good fun or peace of mind.

[Mark]

Hey Mark, those end vents on the TT Stratospire Li are closeable. They have “storm flaps” that seal them totally.

Hi Hudson,

Please see my answer below

Gixer,

you were talking about the bottom vents ?

Well those are indeed there tho create air flow, however you can close them as the description under the photo you posted (from the TT product page) clearly states.

Yes Franco, Exactly those ones.

I understand they use velcro to close

My concern is that because they’re shaped like an air scoop, they will trap the wind to the point that the vent will open.

Compared to the SS2, it’s like putting your hand out of the car window, with the DCF TT vents you’re cupping your hand, with the standard version you’re turning your hand around so your middle finger is creating an edge.

I’ve had an incorrectly pitched SS2 with the A section flapping, and have gotten wet through inside my Duplex from the rain coming up through the gap at the head/foot ends (maybe around 5cm gap between the fly and the ground.

So i don’t think a wind scoop shaped vent held together by velcro (it’s self not brilliant when wet) is not for me

I’ve nothing against TT, if they made one out of 0.8oz DCF and used the same methods for the A-frames as their normal shelter (i.e, no vents) – I’d buy one

If Zpacks did a 0.8oz DCF Duplex with zipped doors and extra mesh to be able to still have a bathtub AND have it dropped into limpet mode – I’d buy one

If the Dirigo had somewhere for the condensation to run, rather than onto my sleeping bag – I’d buy one

 

As it is, i have the Du0plex for good weather and the Khufu for bad weather, so i’m not in a rush to buy something that doesn’t do both tents jobs

[Franco Darioli]

The wind at ground level is never that strong but never mind anyway…

(next time it’ s really windy, lay down flat on the ground and see what happens)

[Mark]

That’s not my experience

Even a 5cm gap between the fly and the ground can be the difference between a comfortable nights sleep and stuff sacks/maps blowing around inside the tent

Of course, a solid inner helps, but I’m not really a fan of vents on dual wall shelters, apart from experimenting on the first few pitches, I’ve never opened the vents on my scarp2

 

Good weather = Doors open

Bad weather = Batten down the hatches

[Author]

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