Idea for low bulk, extreme cold temp glove system

[Anonymous]

I have some butyl gloves for cold weather use as a vapor barrier and when I’m getting water from a creek/stream.  The pair I have is too large on me though.

Butyl rubber has pretty low thermal conductivity (slightly lower than good polypropylene), and of all the common rubbers is most impermeable to gases (important since CO2 is harder to contain than air). This combo (and previous use) sparked an idea.

Get smaller, more fitted pair of butyl rubber gloves.  Place these inside the much larger pair.  Put some Kapok fiber in between–doesn’t need to be too much, just to give it a little air/gas space.  Kapok has similar insulation properties as lower fill duck down at similar density, but it’s more resistant to compression because the fibers are sealed at the ends, hollow, primarily cellulose tubes with a thick, durable wax coating.

Take rubber contact cement, and treat the outside of the inner glove cuff and the inner cuff of the outer glove. Press/bond together except for one small area, in that goes a clear tube.

That same tube is connected to a large mason jar, hot glued through a hole in the lid.  Put mix of baking soda and vinegar in jar, cover with lid.  Creates pressurized CO2 gas, CO2 gas is denser than air, so put the gloves lower than the jar. Once it is primarily CO2 being vented out, put the tube in the glove and fill same with C02 gas, take tube out, then press together to bond.

Since there is no valve, and since we’re using fairly thick butyl rubber, it should be permanently contained in the glove system unless a hole, rip, or the like happens (you’d might want to make or buy a fabric outer/over glove or mitten to protect the butyl from such).

Wear thin, polyester-wool blend liner glove for comfort (always bring two pairs of these, so you can periodically dry out a pair in your pockets as needed).  This should keep your hands warm even in truly Arctic conditions, with low bulk/volume. Probably too warm for even moderately cold temps (like 0F).

Might have some application as a cold, deep water diving suit too, if ones DIY skills are up to par (and provided you can buy sheets of same–dunno, never looked)?

[Anonymous]

Giving it some more thought, even though there is no valve, the CO2 will not stay in there permanently as is (maybe with a special coating–a Teflon coating might help quite a bit?).

Put a little more Kapok to compensate just in case. Even if it’s just stilled air, it will be a very warm system for the bulk/volume.

Argon would be better.

Edit to add:  Argon is more accessible and cheaper than I first thought. Apparently it’s used commonly for wine preservation.

Argon it is.

 

[Anonymous]

Nm, lots of different argon products–have to look through some before seeing what’s best deal.

[Edward John M]

I don’t think it’s practical but I like the way that you think outside the box

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the latter part Edward.

CO2 would definitely not be practical, because it wouldn’t work–it permeates out too easily and quickly (though that is slowed proportionally by the lowering of temps).

But argon would definitely work–low enough permeability that butyl rubber can handle, relatively inexpensive, and because it’s slightly denser than the primary components of air, it’s easy to apply and contain while you’re spraying it in the gloves.

Previously I was under the assumption that argon gas was hard to come by and expensive. But probably thanks primarily to the wine industry, it’s easy and relatively inexpensive to buy little pressurized bottles for it.

Without something fancy, there is no way to get the gloves to be filled only or even almost completely only argon gas, but with easy, convenient means, you can get predominant argon over air no problem.

The thermal conductivity of argon gas is significantly lower than that of air (.016 vs .024).  That combined with two layers of the unusually low thermal conductivity for a solid–butyl rubber (.09), and some pretty good air insulating Kapok fiber, all sealed up between two waterproof layers and combined with a thin glove liner–you got a pretty warm glove system at low bulk.

If done well, it’s actually the opposite of impractical–quite practical.  The main problem with insulation at unusually low temperatures is moisture and you need a lot of conventional insulation to slow down the energy transference process.  Usually this is done with two air permeable layers with a lot of air trapping insulation inside, whether down, thinsulate, etc.

Because these are sensitive to moisture issues and build up, some folks wear VBL gloves–usually cheaper, common types like nitrile and laxtex (both of which don’t compare to the thermal conductivity of butyl rubber–not even neoprene does–these are all in the range of .19 to .24 or so, if I remember correctly).

Using two thicker layers of the latter, with argon gas, and kapok fiber allows you get more insulation at less bulk, and fairly worry free (unless you get a rip or tear in the butyl, but again, even a thin fabric outer mitten or glove would help prevent that easily).

With the added benefit that butyl rubber is quite “grippy”.  Oft times at very cold temps, it can be harder to use your finer manual dexterity–particularly with big ole puffy mittens and the like. Usually you have to wear a liner glove underneath, quickly take off the puffy mitten, and try to quickly do what you need to do, and then shove your freezing hands back into your mitten and wait for it to all warm up again.

With this system, unless you’re dealing with something sharp or highly abrasive, you wouldn’t have to do that.

What does make it impractical is that eventually the argon will permeate out like a rubber balloon filled with air (without a special coating on the butyl rubber), so the ideal system would have a highly efficient valve so that every once in awhile, you could refill it.

Otherwise, keeping it in the freezer when you’re not using it will prolong the argon gas containment, because permeability with most rubbers goes down with temp. If it’s primarily subjected to cold temps most of the time, the argon should stay in there for a fairly long time.  The only primary heat it should be subjected to, is the heat of your hands (which I would guess ranges from 80* F to 85 or so?).

[Edward John M]

Years ago I had a pair of Japanese Freezer gloves that worked on the VB principle. I can’t remember where they went to but I do remember they were very clunky to work in, I do remember however that they were Nitrile rubber and Thinsulate insulated

[Author]

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