I really want to modify my Zpacks Hipbelt Pockets

[DGoggins]

I bought 8 12×12″ pieces (though don’t have 12×24″ pieces so really cheap), so unfortunately I will probably have to do 2 7″ pieces….have any suggestions on connecting the two strips?

 

And…just so everyone knows…you can use duct tape, but it looks like its only temporary. The sides of my tape is already coming detached from the pocket so its not long term.

 

[DGoggins]

Actually…I can probably just get away with 12″ strips. The strips should still meet just about where the zipper starts (the 14″ strips goes past it by an 1″)

[Hoosier T]

I mean you have eight pieces so while you’ll end up with more scrap, just cut one piece diagonally out of each sheet. The corner to corner measurement should be 17″.

[Billy Ray]

“…you can use duct tape, but it looks like its only temporary. ”

FYI… duct tape is ALWAYS temporary… peals and turns to goo… always.

billy

[DGoggins]

Duh…ok, I’ll just cut at a diagonal. The sheets are $1.30 each! Super cheap.

[Hoosier T]

Small price to pay for improved functionality (if it works, or course).

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Threads like this are one of the reasons I LOVE BPL! Awesome work everyone.
Next week when work eases up and I’m not so stressed I’ll be trying this mod on my Zpacks Dyneema pouches. I also find it annoying when out with two trekking poles to get into them. I reckon I’ll try with zip ties to start with, I have a few to choose from.

[Bob Moulder]

I just checked the CF tape on mine and it still looks good, so I’m encouraged now to do a full-length mod and not just the corner.

I got the automated email reply from Zpacks that my order (of CF tape only) would take about a week to ship, but fortunately I got a shipment notice yesterday. Either somebody figured out that this was a quick order out of the way or I’m getting preferential treatment because I’m a Zpacks fan-boi extraordinaire, lol!

[DGoggins]

OK….the kydex came in the mail. Way more kydex than I could possibly ever use. If this works and somebody wants some, I’ll be happy to give some away.

Anyway, so the plan is…..cut up the strips diagonally using a straight edge and a razorblade, then break it off.

Put the oven at 250° and see if its “floppy”, if not, go to 300°.

Now, instead of placing it over the pocket……I think I’ll just try and form it on a cookie sheet. All I really want is a shape like a …staple I guess….straight edges and then a small curve at the two corners. I know the length of the straight edge, so now I would just need to find two round objects that my wife can hold while I bend the kydex around it and hold it till cools (with gloves of course). Sound right? Also….lets say I have 6 strips to do…so I’ll take 1 strip out at a time from the oven, bend it, let it cool, then take another one out, right?

Also…..I see that there is a shiny side to the kydex and a matte side. Does it matter at all which side is facing the inside of the pocket?

I haven’t worked with kydex before so just wondering…

 

[Hoosier T]

I think you’re on the right track. Yes, you will want to heat and mold one at a time unless you come up with a molding mechanism. Have any cardboard laying around? Really, all you need is a block made from cardboard or wood, 5″ high, 6″ wide, and just a few inches deep. Then you could just lay the strips on the block so the sides of the “staple” are hanging down the sides. Of course, this could end up taking you longer to make the block than it would to mold them by hand. Just remember, if you don’t love the outcome, throw it back in the oven. It’s actually quite fun to watch them flatten back out to a sheet.

Regarding shiny or dull, it doesn’t matter for this application. For holsters you want the dull side out. I would probably just put the shiny side out as the tape will likely hold it better since it won’t have tiny air gaps where the texturing is. Good luck and have fun! Pics or it never happened. :)

[[ Drew ]]

Indeed, pics or shenanigans.

If this works I have a pair of dyneema and a pair of CF zpacks pockets to do this with.

[Bob Moulder]

The CF tape arrived yesterday and I was able to do the full treatment using the 75-lb rated 14-inch zip ties.

To make it easier to work on the pouches I found a super handy method of using a pre-perforated foam block to make a nice, rectangular form. This made it a snap to very neatly apply the zip ties and tape, which can be quite a mess to handle otherwise.

Seriously, this CF tape is the way to go; it has all the right properties for this job.

Using Dan’s idea of anchoring the pouch’s little grosgrain loops, the opening/closing of the full length of the zipper is quite good, even with nothing in the pouch — plenty good enough for me!

[HiLight]

Bob, that looks great.

I wondered about improving the pouches the first time I used mine. <span style=”line-height: 1.8;”>Kydex and zip ties both came to mind, as well as some strips off of a very thin, cheap-o cutting board that my kitchen wouldn’t miss. If you find those zip ties aren’t stiff enough, 3′ ones should get the job done. I also have a Zpacks Multi-Pack I want to improve for use as a camera bag, so some of these ideas will probably help with that project, too. </span>

[Bob Moulder]

So far the zip ties are perfect and I plan to modify the other pouches the same way. I’ve got a couple of MLD pouches to upgrade as well. I’m watching with interest to see if the Kydex offers any advantage, but for me these work quite well already. I really believe the tape is the key… not so much the type of plastic that is used for the stiffener.

BTW, the weight increase of the Zpacks pouch was 5.3 grams after the mod.

Edit: weight increase is about 5.3g (not 3.8 per previous) and the MDL hip belt pouches have the zipper on the side and I’m not going to modify them.

[DGoggins]

OK, so I am still waiting on my zpacks order for the CF tape, but I went ahead and made the kydex strips.

First I used a sewing cutting board to start cutting up the 14″ x 1/4″ strips ->

 

 

It wasn’t too bad…easy stuff to work with as long as you are consistent with your razor blade. I’m sure the .028 thickness made it easier.

8 strips weighed 24g ->

compared to 13-14g for 8 14″ zipties (7 of these zipties still had the closure lock on them) ->

 

Into the oven at 250°

They warmed up quick…but cooled down very quickly b/c of how thin they were. I did find a cardboard box which was the right length for the pouches. It was super easy to just bend them over the box and wait 3 seconds for them to cool. Generally did 3 and then put the others back in the oven to heat back up.

Then…finished product ->

Unfortunately….my gut feeling is that these are not going to work as well as the zipties.

First…I tried to cut 1/4″ strips…and most were just slightly larger. Even if they were 1/4″…that would only leave 1/8″ of cuben fiber tape on each side….which…I think would not be sufficient to hold long term. So, since most are slightly more than 1/4″, I would have even less than 1/8″ on each side.

Compared to the zipties which are a consistent 1/8″ wide.

Yes, they are a bit stiffer…especially pushing them towards each other (the flat top is stiffer), though the corners seem about the same as the zipties.

I could use .06 kydex…but then the weight doubles. And if I cut the .028 kydex any narrower…then you lose the advantage of the stiffness.

And…considering that zipties have 0 prep time, and a bag of 20 costs $3 at lowes…it would be hard to currently recommend kydex..though again..I don’t have the tape yet.

 

[Hoosier T]

The only single sided cuben tape that Zpacks sells is 1″, did you order it elsewhere? The depth of their hipbelt pockets should easily allow you to use a 1″ width tape on each side of the zipper.

[DGoggins]

Ah! I hate being wrong….I don’t know where I got it in my mind that it was 1/2″…yes, its 1″. Ok…so, I’ll definitely make 1 of each and test which I like better then before making the other 2.

[Bob Moulder]

Something else to consider…

When assembling the tape and plastic stiffeners, obviously the stiffeners are bent 180° from the inside-out ‘assembly stage’ to the ultimate usage stage when the pockets are returned to outside-out, which seems to negate the point of heating and forming the Kydex stiffeners.

However, I have not made things from Kydex (although I have used some commercially available handgun holsters made from it!) and am not sure how it responds to bending after heat forming. Maybe it’ll work fine.

[DGoggins]

Well….I didn’t think of that. Hmm, this stuff is really not that stiff….just a bit stiffer than zipties. I tried bending them 180° and they seemed to go back fine…though now I’m questioning where I should have even heated/bent them in the first place and if just a flat piece that gets taped/curved to the inside (like a ziptie), would have been just as good …

 

I mean….if you don’t have to go through the heat step, that would cut out some work.

[Bob Moulder]

I mean….if you don’t have to go through the heat step, that would cut out some work.

Yep to that, and working with the tape I have found it MUCH easier to keep the plastic piece (zip tie) flat to keep the tape from tangling and sticking to itself, which essentially ruins it by compromising the adhesive. Yesterday morning I modified 3 pouches (1 Dyneema X and 2 CF) in about 20 minutes, in no hurry at all. No doubt if Zpacks had an assembly station for this with materials pre-cut, it could probably be done in about 30 seconds per pouch. Charge an extra $5 for the “E-Z Zip Hip Belt Pouches” and there ya go!

As far as assembly technique, I found it best to use a small piece of CF tape to align the zip tie to the pouch (with the foam form already inside), stretch out the CF tape and align it with and stick it to the zip tie and then press the tape/zippie to the pouch, working from the middle to the ends, using the zipper as a placement guide. This provided the neatest result. Of course, by the time I really got the process dialed in I was done and won’t have to do it again for a few years, if ever, lol. :^)

After all this, I put a few things in the Arc Blast and did my local hike with my dog to test. One-handed operation was perfect, and I plan to give it its first real field test tomorrow and Wed when I do an actual quick 1-night backpacking trip.

OK, so I’m done flogging this fallen horse and am looking forward to others’ results!

[J R]

Bob, so the pouch is about 6″ across the top and looks like you need about 3″ down each side, so a total of about 12″ per each strip or 24″ of cuben tape to do one pouch, is that about right? I’m looking to do this as well and am realizing that a single order of cuben tape from Zpacks will be just about gone after doing two pouches.

My pouches are the hybrid cuben fabric (poly outer and uben inner), not the gridstop, do you think there will be any issues trying the same mod with that material?

[Hoosier T]

I’m not Bob, but Zpacks states the cuben tape will only stick to the inside of Hybrid Cuben and since you’re taping the inside of the pouches, I see no issue at all.

[DGoggins]

I bet the tape would stick even better to CF hybrid than dyneema, since that is what the tape is made for.

And….I would think it would be easier to roll out the tape, sticky side up, on a flat surface, and then put the ziptie down on the tape, and then flip it over to stick on the pocket, but ….either way I’m sure is fine. (I have a pic of what I’m talking about further up in the thread in one of my posts).

[Bob Moulder]

The tape sticks very well to Dyneema X and even better to CF. The same tape is used for seam-sealing the inside of my Arc Haul (Dyneema X) and it works very well there! The photos in my most recent post above show a fairly well-used CF hip belt pocket getting the treatment.

JR, those dimensions are pretty close, HOWEVER you want the cuben tape to extend past the end of the zip tie to ‘anchor’ it very securely there. So measure accordingly and order accordingly, keeping in mind that when you order the CF tape from Zpacks unfortunately it doesn’t come in one continuous roll but rather separate 54″ strips. So order extra for practicing and goof-ups. However, in this application there would be no problem at all overlapping the ends of the tape in order to utilize odd-sized leftover pieces.

One other thing I noticed is that  turning the pocket inside-out to tape in the zip ties creates a natural bias for the zip ties to press outward somewhat when the pocket is turned back to normal outside-out. This is a very good thing because it actually results in even less stress on the tape. I think this fix should last a long time with no problems.

OK, OK… so I got in a few more kicks of the dead horse! ;^)

 

[Gary Dunckel]

Man, Bob, you are my all-time favorite MYOG-geek. You have me thinking that I need to make some cuben hip belt pockets for my HMG packs, just so that I can add zip ties to them. You know, so that I can be like you…

[Author]

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