How HMG Stay Sleeves Installed?

[Hoosier T]

Hi,

I’m looking to make a Hybrid Cuben pack with stays. I was looking at detailed photos of HMG packs and can see the stay sleeves inside the pack but there don’t appear to be corresponding stitch lines on the exterior of the pack. Anyone have one they could investigate and let me know? I have high quality 3M tape but I can’t see that holding up well to the peel force exerted on the stay sleeves but I have to wonder if HMG sews the sleeves to a piece of cuben and tapes them in.

[Sam C]

Never seen an HMG other than on the web, but, my guess:  there is an internal sleeve (pad pocket) that runs the length of the back panel and that stay channels are sewn to that.

[Hoosier T]

Thanks, Sam. Can anyone say how this is normally done if there isn’t a sleeve? It seems to me that the stays need to be secured to the main back panel for proper load transfer and rigidity so how are these stay sleeves sewn in on packs without a pad/hydration sleeve? I’ve tried looking at pics of various packs and don’t see stitch lines running down the back panel of any of them. What I’m trying to do is make sure the entire inside of the pack can be seam taped and the webbing for the sleeves would interfere with this. Anyone have any thoughts on the best way to integrate the stay without having a stichline to have to tape?

[Link .]

Hoosier did you look at the photos and explanation from the photos in THIS article, that is what mine is like except the inside padded backing the stay sleeves are sewn to is white instead of black.

[Hoosier T]

That helps a ton, thanks Link! So the foam back panel pad is where the sleeves are sewn. Got it.

[Hoosier T]

Okay MYOG gurus, here’s what I’m thinking. I don’t care to have an internal foam sleeve and I want the stays against the back panel. So what if I cut a piece of 1.43 cuben the same size as the main backpanel, sew the stay sleeves to the cuben, then tape the cuben piece to the inside of the back panel (it will be X-Pac X 21RC) with tape across the entirety of the sheet. I would also sew the two together around the perimeter for a little extra security. Thoughts? Basically ending up with one sheet after I tape the two together but with no stitching going through the outside layer of the backpanel.

[David Chenault]

I don’t see why that wouldn’t work.

One reason HMG does their stays like they do is to make the stay-user connection a little less direct.  If you have twin stays the end right at the shoulder straps with no fore-aft slack the bend has to be dead on or they’ll tend to pull the shoulder straps away under load.  Probably not relevant to the MYOG individual who is likely to be fine with bending and rebending to get the fit right.

If you have no padding at all between the stays and your back be aware of chafe points, particularly the bones in your shoulders.

[Hoosier T]

Thanks, David. I will indeed have twin stays (7075 aluminum bars in the mail ATM). The stays will extend 4″ beyond the top of the should straps and connect at the load lifters. A sit pad is essential for me so I will be using an external sleeve on the backpanel for the sitpad ala GG Gorilla. This should eliminate any hotspots from the stays. Still debating on color so as soon as I can decide I’ll get started on this. Really wish there were more colors out there in X 21RC. I don’t want the taffeta backing so that’s the sweet spot in material for my project but color selection isn’t great.

[Sam C]

If you are going to be using a sit pad as back padding, why not sew the stay channels directly to the back panel?

[Hoosier T]

If you are going to be using a sit pad as back padding, why not sew the stay channels directly to the back panel?

A couple reasons:

1. I always make things more difficult than they need to be. I guess those difficulties are why I like to MYOG so much.
2. I am dedicated to making this pack as waterproof as possible. All main seam will be taped but taping the channels couldn’t be done with full waterproofness. I could tape over the outside, but water could still leak in around the stays. And no, I won’t be swimming with this thing but I still want to give it the best design I can to achieve my mission.

 

[Nick Gatel]

My McHale Bump has an interior pocket that holds the foam pad. The sleeves are sewn to the inside face of the pocket.

My McHale LBP, which is a much more robust pack, has the sleeves sewn directly to the back panel. A mesh covered foam pad is attached to the outside of the back panel with Velcro strips and a couple webbing straps.

[Sam C]

I am dedicated to making this pack as waterproof as possible. All main seam will be taped but taping the channels couldn’t be done with full waterproofness. I could tape over the outside, but water could still leak in around the stays. And no, I won’t be swimming with this thing but I still want to give it the best design I can to achieve my mission.

 

Got it. Thought that you were just looking to hide the seams for a cleaner look.

 

 

[R]

Couldn’t you sew the sleeves to the outside and then tape the seams on the inside?

 

 

[Hoosier T]

@autox, I would but I’m using proper length stays that extend 4″ above the shoulder straps. That negates the option to put them on the outside since the shoulder straps would be int he way.

[R]

If you’ve got the Quickstep in mind as a model for your straps, then no, that won’t work, but there are other paradigms.

Check out the Exped Lighting: http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/backpacks/lightning-45-lichen-green

Their system could be readily adapted to a single strap on a single stay for a two stay design like yours. I’m thrilled with my Lightning and think they’ve come up with a brilliant system.

If your shoulder straps terminate in a piece of webbing at the top (I believe Zpacks do this), that could be sewn to the sleeve before the sleeve is sewn to the back panel. (I’m assuming you’ll be using webbing as sleeves.) An external reenforcement patch could be added to the back panel ahead of time if desired.

Given that your stays are only a half inch wide and your straps are likely 3 or 4 times that wide, you could arrange for each strap to straddle the stay, attached to the back panel on either side of it.

Pending the angle of your stays and the curve at the upper end of your straps, you might be able to attach them adjacent to the stay sleeves.

I’d go with the Exped paradigm. It can be made simpler and lighter if it’s not adjustable. It also proves you don’t need full length sleeves – fewer needle holes, less tape, lighter, more water proof.

 

 

 

[David Chenault]

I’d echo what Rene said, though you might have to juggle stay width to get the shoulder straps where they need to be.  If you do a bottom entry set of stay sleeves and use the hipbelt to hold them on it both carries well and is lighter and simpler.  An external pad sleeve works well to keep this all in place.

[Hoosier T]

Thanks David and Rene. I think I’m on board with putting them on the outside. It will indeed make this whole thing easier and lighter. Time to start drawing things up!

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