Hiking the JMT in late September/early October?

[Taylor D]

Hello everyone, I was looking for some input on Hiking the JMT from September 19- October3-4 starting at Tuolumne Meadows.  I have been hiking all my life but have yet to do a backpacking trip.  Basically I have quite a few questions that I have researched but am still not 100% sure on.

1. What skills do I need to have in case of a major snow storm? I do plan on knowing all of the bailout points and having them on a map.
2. I will be sleeping in the Co Op Magma 10 sleeping bag, most likely with layers on, and in the Big Agnes HV UL2 tent As far as clothing goes I have not gotten that far in my researching yet but I suspect I will be wearing a puffy jacket for most of my time on the trail. Any other clothing suggestions or general warmth suggestions?
3. I know I can probably find this through studying but is there a way to know when its time to bailout vs just waiting out a storm?
4. Also I will research this but what do you guys recommend as far as resupplying around Sept 26-27 goes?

Im sure I can find everything I need to know about what food to bring on here or other sites also.  Im already in pretty good shape as far as cardio goes.  I would like to do the full trail on my vacation but if not I would be open to a section hike out of yosemite.  Do you guys have any advice/recommendations for me?? Thanks!

[Roger Caffin]

You have a tent and a sleeping bag, but that is NOT enough. You can freeze at night by heat loss to the ground. You need a GOOD air mat at least. A good air mat plus a light foam layer would be my recommendation.

Do you have a good stove you can use INSIDE your tent? If there is a bad storm for a while you will not be able to cook outside your tent. Being able to make hot soup inside your tent while lying on a good airmat can be one of the pleasures of life – or the difference between life and death.

Cheers

[Matthew / BPL]

Other people here will have more informed opinions than mine but hiking the JMT solo in late September as a first backpacking trip does not sound like a great plan to me. I think  you may be putting yourself and SAR at risk.

Bailing means a couple days of tough walking at several points along the trail

My suggestion is to do a shorter hike or two in the Sierra during that time period or hit the JMT another year when you can go earlier in the season.

[Taylor D]

Thank you both for the input, I’m going to do a couple of backpacking classes at REi and see how I feel about doing the whole thing, if not , would doing around 100 miles be fairly safe?

[Brad Rogers]

It could really be hit or miss that time of year in the High Sierra. The days could be beautiful or you could get buried in snow. I did a trip there that time of year in 2013 and we had a snowstorm the day we hit the trail (it covered the roads to the trailhead) and then had some beautiful days.

What about something a little lower, like Trinity Alps?

[Miner]

I hiked that exact time frame last fall.  Check out my online journal, which includes my gear list. I won’t have access to a real computer till the weekend (hate typing a wall of text with cell) so I’ll come back then and look at your questions.

[Matthew / BPL]

Some questions that run through my head:

1. What is your expected baseweight and total pack weight?
2. It sounds like you are planning on 12 or 15 mile days. Have you carried a backpack with your expected load for those kinds of miles?
3. How about altitude? Have you hiked and slept at altitude?
4. How are your navigation skills with the ground covered in snow?
5. Are you geared up properly to protect yourself in the case of significant snow? Do you have the experience to be days away from an exit in snow, rain, freezing temps and heavy wind?

The first three questions would be the same in August (probably the easiest month for this trip). The last two questions are the ones that really concern me, particularly for a first-timer and definitely if you are going solo. In August you are much less likely to get wet and hypothermic. Getting lost or not knowing how to secure your shelter above treeline in a 45mph wind while rain is coming in before a subfreezing night could get dangerous.

You asked about resupply options. MTR will be closed by then. I don’t know when Red’s closes or what the Mammoth bus service is like at that time of year. VVR will be open. Keasarge/Onion Valley is an option but it’s 8 or 10 miles and then a hitch/shuttle into Independence and back.

You asked if 100 miles would be safe. The issue is not overall mileage but distance from exits and the overall altitude/exposure. Generally speaking, the northern end of the trail is less challenging than the southern end with lower passes, more tree coverage and more exits.

 

[Matthew / BPL]

Miner, your journal shows that you have more than a little backpacking experience. How do you feel about a first-timer hiking the JMT solo in the late season?

[Erica R]

Bad idea. Pick a long weekend to try backpacking in late July/August.

I know I can probably find this through studying… you probably can’t. The first sign of hypothermia is impaired judgement.

 

[Lori P]

Any time someone asks “what skills do I need in winter on a solo” the answer to whether they should go is no. Any time someone who has never backpacked says “should I do the JMT” the answer is no. Combine the two and whoa, son, that’s gonna hurt.

Everything will need to be heavier than it was in summer – more clothes, and you will have ALL your food for the ENTIRE TRIP because the resorts out there start to shut down and many are closed up by Sept 15. By October 15 roads are closed to overnight parking in anticipation of snow. There is not a bear canister big enough for 200+ miles worth of food and you MUST have one, so you will be carrying multiple bear canisters.

Electronics fail, especially in the cold that zaps batteries. They don’t fail consistently, but they are not an absolutely perfect solution. All you have to do is google the Bob Woodie search – they went to the last breadcrumb his Spot left, he wan’t there, they found him elsewhere dead. This is also what happens when you are hypothermic – and unable to think straight to recognize how much trouble you are in to press the button and get help before you die.

You aren’t even sure what gear you need. The right gear for you is partly determined by experience, which you don’t have.

You should take an experienced winter backpacker/mountaineer with you for a while when going in winter, to learn the skills specific to winter. You should go for one and two night trips, then longer, before you go for 10-20. If you’re not planning to do these things before you go, you’ll be running a much higher risk of being like this guy: https://www.nps.gov/yose/blogs/lost-at-hetch-hetchy.htm

Yep, you might go and have an epic time. But you’re increasing exponentially the chances that you won’t… As a former SAR volunteer, I can tell you that you are one of “those guys.”

Wait a year and get a bunch of good experience.

[Cameron M]

These are all good comments. That time of year can be wonderful and perfectly safe. If it snows, that first snow may only slow you down one day. And up until that first snow, there should still be plenty of people on the trail to help with advice and perspective (not true much later into October). Bad things can happen any day of the year.

Like the others above, I recommend that you put in a challenging minimum three-day practice trip with all your equipment to shake out what works and does not, including perhaps carrying another 10 pounds of dead weight to more closely approximate your JMT trip. As always, plan for the worst. In this case, be prepared for a few days of rain where your items don’t dry out, a foot of snow, and a few very cold nights. The other challenge unique to this time is resupply; it generally becomes more complicated mid-September. You will either need to arrange to have a resupply meet you at a pass, or you will have to hike out and hike back in somewhere in the middle. Beyond that, if you still have doubt, opt for only one section or different trip this year.

[Taylor D]

Okay so I am shooting for 30lb total weight considering a resupply point, with a 15 lb base weight.  But I dont have an exact weight as of right now.  I have done quite a few 15-20 mile days carrying a backpack with around 20-30 lbs, however these were not at an altitude.  I have done one 10 mile hike at altitude which i felt was very easy, however I did not sleep at altitude.  I do have a map and I will have a GPS on my phone that should aid me in finding my way through the snow(however I see that this is unreliable without the skills to navigate through snow in the first place).  I also plan on knowing my bailout point at each section of my planned route. I plan on having the gear for well below freezing temperatures, but my experience seems to be the problem which I may choose to hit a different trail this year.  Now maybe the sources that I have been using are wrong and I do plan for temperatures in the teens, but every thing I have looked at is showing lows for this time fram between 37-40 degrees, with precipitation in the 0-1 inch range? i presume that is incorrect? Could anyone link me to a more accurate average weather for the JMT?  and Miner thank you for the link I predict it will be a great help to me!

Lori, as I stated I will not be on the JMT past October 4, it does look like VVR is open until 10/20 still would be a lot to carry past there though, I agree. I assume by getting hypothermia you are assuming by inexperience, somehow Im unable to secure my shelter and my gear that I spent months researching fails? I am guessing there are no classes in securing your tent in freezing pouring rain so I would agree with you there.  What do you describe as “those guys”? someone who asks the more experienced for advice about safety before committing to the trip? As a Firefighter I run on “those guys” and “those guys” give me job security.  but I wouldnt describe myself as one of them… lol.

As I said I am open to easier trails in preparation for the JMT next year, Brad, the Trinity Alps looks amazing and definitely an option! Thanks for the replies everyone.

[Taylor D]

Cameron thank you for the input, a 3 day hike with extra weight is what I will be doing to prepare for the JMT or other backpacking trip ill be going on . Thanks!

[Cameron M]

There is really nothing particularly scary about this specific time of the year. Just remember that averages are not what you can count on. Most likely your days will be 60s, nights low to mid 30’s, it will be fantastic and is my favorite time of the year. But it could potentially rain for several days, dump a lot of snow one day, or drop down into the teens at night. That is what one needs to anticipate to be safe and self-sufficient.

BTW, contrary to popular thought, I find that on a well-used trail like the JMT, seeing and following the line of the trail after a first snow is visually EASIER than with no snow, and most likely will not have any icy conditions.

[J-L]

You might consider doing multiple shorter backpacks during your vacation instead of sticking to the whole JMT. I think this might be more enjoyable for a beginner backpacker and would still let you see some fantastic scenery.

For example, you could do a 3-4 day backpack in Yosemite, drive to Mammoth, do another backpack in the Ansel Adams Wilderness, and then drive down the 395 to do the North Lake – South Lake Loop or maybe hike to Big Pine Lakes depending on weather, conditions, and your comfort level.

Doing multiple shorter backpacks would let you:

• Build up some experience to tackle longer trails in the future
• Carry a lighter pack (less food)
• Avoid or bail on bad weather more easily
• Opportunity for refining gear/food choices between trips
• Recover in town for a night or two between trips
• No resupply worries

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Taylor,

I want to second Cameron’s comments re weather, etc.

I don’t often post, but since I have been hiking the Sierra for almost 60 years and are fortunate enough, now that I am retired, to spend 3.5/4 consecutive months (June to early October,) sleeping no lower than 9,000 feet in the Sierra, I will post a few comments.  Have been on JMT many times, too many to count.  Post Labor Day into early October is my favorite time of year to BP in the Sierra; have been out the first week of October often.  As others have mentioned, just be prepared for cold, wet/snowy days/nights; plus you will certainly not be alone of the JMT this time of year.  As Cameron mentioned, JMT trail tracking in the snow is not difficult.

Regarding resupply, Red’s Meadow’s Store closes September 30.  I recall the Red’s shuttle bus stops the Tuesday after Labor Day, but easy to hitch a ride if needed.  Inyo National Forest web site has updated Red’s information.  Resupply at Red’s and VVR, with proper planning and good, not great trail daily mileage, are sufficient.

Re weather, National Park Wilderness Rangers stay out until the end of September, so once you enter SEKI at Silver Pass, you can check at ranger stations along the trail (Le Conte, etc.).  In addition, a sizable number of JMT hikers carry electronic devices, some of which pick up weather forecasts.  JMT hiking books, such as authored by Elizabeth Wenk, have historic weather data.  Might want to look at websites such as the JMT Yahoo group for additional weather information.

Unless there is a storm, you will not be hiking in a puffy, which is way too warm.

Lastly, as others have mentioned, as many shake down outings as possible, regardless of location, even if for one night, are critical.  By now, I assume you have obtained a postal scale, which is necessary for gear and food lists; both lists are very important.  Please look at various gear lists posted at this site, then post your complete gear list for comments.

Your posting at BPL is a good first step.  My guess is, as a firefighter, you are in good shape.  If you have “trail legs” before you start and carry a lightweight load (this is BPL after all), you should do well.

If you follow the advice offered on this forum, I see no reason you cannot hike the JMT this year.  In actual fact, you will be better prepared than many first time JMT hikers.  Have a great hike!

 

 

 

[Ben C]

I, too, was concerned by your first post that mentioned hiking in your puffy.  Get a fleece instead.  The puffy is only good while in camp for the most part.  You could use a little backpacking experience to avoid other similar mistakes.

Remember days are going to be a lot shorter that time of year too.

[Matthew / BPL]

That’s an interesting detail that you are a firefighter. I would assume that means fitness, medical training and judgement. This detail changes my perceptions a bit.

I’m sure you have researched your gear well. I’m guessing you will practice setting your tent up a few times. Even given that, there are so many variables and skills that you will learn as you gain more experience: campsite selection, tying knots when your hands are freezing or wearing gloves, dealing with campsites that have a tree in the way or one corner low/high. These errors can compound on top of each other and that’s when things can get dangerous.

I like John’s idea a lot. Go hit Yosemite for a few days (maybe even TM to Red’s?). Then cruise down to Bishop and resupply/hit a hotel/buy warmer socks/etc and do a loop. Then down to Lone Pine for another resupply and do Kearsarge to WP if things are going well. It sounds like a seriously fun time to me and you’d never be far from an exit.

[Matthew / BPL]

I think Lori’s comment is worth repeating:

“Any time someone asks “what skills do I need in winter on a solo” the answer to whether they should go is no”

Your original questions reveal a lot about your level of experience. Granted October is not January but you are rolling the dice on this in a pretty remote area.

[Matthew / BPL]

15# baseweight including the bear can?

VVR to WP is ~135 miles. Ten days of food will be a minimum of 15# and you will have to be extremely rigorous in order to make that happen (we can provide advice on this topic if needed). Most people would want to carry more than 1.5#/day.

You will want to carry 2-3# of water much of the time.

At a 12.5# baseweight + bear can + food + water I suspect you will be at more like 35#. Not a huge difference from your estimate but worth noting.

[Matthew / BPL]

The concern about sleeping at altitude is AMS/HACE/HAPE.

[Taylor D]

wow thanks for all the replies! I will post my gear list ASAP. Depending on how confident I am in my gear and skills by that time will decide whether I tackle the JMT or do another less strenuous trail. I havent gotten as far as exactly what food Ill be bringing but I will definitely post a list.  I have a while until the trail so my budget is pretty open for good ultra light gear, if there is any gear you guys would recommend for that time of year? I would like the pack to be about 30 with food but 35 is definitely okay also.  At this point my main worries would be AMS due to altitude sickness which I assume acetazolamide would prevent? As well as getting pinned down/ lost in a storm.  As far as the miles go I know its harder at elevation but I do plan on being in pretty good shape preparing for the trail.  Thanks again everyone.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Taylor,

As long as you stay on the trail, in my opinion, it is almost impossible to get lost on the JMT.  In actual fact, you will encounter other JMT hikers and form a moving hiking community headed south.

Food planning for a JMT hike with few resupplies is important.  Some backpackers do not feel hungry at altitude for the first three days or so and, therefore, do not eat properly, have to slow down, take innumerable stops, want to stop hiking for the day, etc. One has to consume sufficient calories or the outing will be miserable. Recent studies concluded insufficient fluids and, quite surprisingly, insufficient food intake can contribute to altitude illness. Not consuming sufficient calories and not consuming sufficient fluids are the inexperienced backpacker’s most common mistakes.

[Matthew / BPL]

There’s a Facebook group with lots of resources and studies that you might find useful. Search for “altitude acclimatization” on Facebook and join the group. Diamox is a common treatment/prophylaxis for AMS.

[Taylor D]

Awesome! so that is good news. Also I may have found a safer way to do this which is starting September 13, which will be a Thursday and that would put me exiting about Sept 27-28, The only problem is this will be much harder to get a walk up permit I assume.  I heard that after labor day there is a little less competition for the walk up permits, does anyone have any input on this? Thanks!

[Author]

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