Custom hipbelt – source?

[John M]

I’m making a backpack similar to the seekoutside divide and the hipbelt I envision is too much for my sewing machine.  I’d like something like a six moon designs fusion 50L large belt but I need the padded section to be more like 38 or 40 inches because I have a size 44 waist.  I love the 1L pockets on my fusion and I’ve found nothing that I can easily modify with big pockets in that size range.  The design aspects I like about the fusion belt are the big pockets and the very stiff piece of plastic inside the belt. I’d like the belt to carry substantial loads (say 45-50 lbs) if needed and I think the fusion design is up to the task.

Anyhow,  I’ve contacted zimmerbuilt via email twice over a six month period and have not received a reply twice – apparently not interested in my project.  I also contacted six moon designs recently and haven’t heard from them, either.

The fusion hip belt has a stiff piece of plastic in it and the stitches for the straps, etc. go right through that.  The internal construction seems to be a) stiff plastic rib, b) thick cushioning foam and c) then softer foam and I’m certain my sewing machine wont be able to hack it.

So I’d appreciate anyone you could suggest that could do it economically.

 

 

 

 

 

[John M]

Anybody? This is my first post and I spent 27 bucks joining this site just to be able to ask the question. The hip belt is the only portion of a MYOG project that I’ll be getting from someone else because my sewing machine cant handle the load.  I’m doing everything else as MYOG.

Even some ideas would be helpful.

 

[Ken Thompson]

Anyone around you do canvas or tack repair? Old school shoe repair? All would have machinery up to task

[HkNewman]

Chris Z does a lot of custom work, including some of my bigger packs.

That’s a pretty tricky design maybe requiring special equipment, too many hrs., etc… (I dunno) but someone had to prototype it in the US or Asia.

Most design here only uses the hipbelt to stabilize, unless doing away with it altogether. MYOGers have sewn together “Frankenpacks”, so maybe look at those?

[Geoff Caplan]

Just found these guys today:

https://www.swdbackpacks.com/

They’re quite new, and although they’re not custom builders they do customise their stock designs – worth a try anyway. Only a small operation so they may be on the trail at times.

Have you tried SeekOutside themselves? A lot of their ideas seem to come from customers, so they might be interested in working with you on this.

Finally, are you sure you really need to machine sew though the plastic? Perhaps you can slot it into a pouch inside the belt, or pre-punch holes and hand sew using leather tools, or find some other kind of workaround?

[John M]

Chris Z is apparently not interested.  He hasn’t responded to any of my emails.  Usually I’m a fairly light weight (around 25 lbs) but not ultralight backpacker.  BUT when my wife comes along I carry my stuff and most of hers.  I  decided to sew a lightweight pack frame/suspension to hold a pack bag like a G4 for the times I go with my wife.  I can frankenstein some easily available items to work (XL osprey isoform or ILBE arcteryx) but they won’t be quite long enough and I’ll have to put the pockets on as an afterthought – not ideal.  I may be stuck with these as my only option though.  I don’t want to pay a small fortune for a custom belt. That could be why nobody responds to my enquiries – too expensive to interest most people.

[John M]

I’ve been planning to make this project for about 3 years and the divide is almost exactly what I want except you can only get what they sell and what they sell is very expensive.  They have a perfect hipbelt for me if it had pockets and was about 4 inches longer – their add on pockets cost way too much and I dont like the size of them.  I also dont like the size of the water bottle pockets or the color.  Lots of stuff I dont particularly like for a pack that will cost $400.  That said I could live with it but for 400 bucks I dont want to do that.  I already have 5 packs so buying another one that doesn’t absolutely delight me makes no sense to me.  At some point I may call them and see what they could do but their hipbelt is pretty pricey bought separately.

The six moons focus hipbelt is actually perfect for my project if it was a few inches longer.  The price is right also.  I could easily frankenstein that one onto what I envision my final design will be.  The fusion belt has quite a bit of stitching through the plastic.  I could possiby come up with a work around – I’ve thought about it a little but for a belt that carries a heavier load that’s a challenge.

I’ll check out the link you posted – thanks.

[John M]

I’m putting a lightweight bag on an old Jansport Scout Frame.  I will probably end up weighing about 3 to 3.5 pounds.  I may cut the height of the frame down a bit.  I’m using Jansport straps as a starting point – they are adequate but not ideal since they have no load lifters.  I’ve never particularly liked load lifters anyway but they could easily be added if necessary.

My plan was to carefully cut the original hip belt from the structure that holds it to the frame and add a padded velcro sleeve at that point so that a standard belt from another manufacturer could be slipped through the sleeve.  It will end up looking like a Kelty Trekker hip belt assembly.  I will replace the middle back pad with either a replacement from kelty if it fits (probably will) or experiment with a mesh similar to a cane chair seat made by weaving no stretch cordage (very old school – but light, airy and effective).  Of course the challenge here for me is to keep the weight down.  Frankensteining some together that works won’t be that hard, but I want the weight to be around 3 to 3.5 lbs.  The aluminum frame may be 2 which leaves little room for the suspension and bag.

I’m a design engineer who has been around long enough that all I do these days is paperwork. Designing my own equipment and mods makes me happy – especially when its very different than what is commercially available.  Usually the first thing I do when I buy new stuff is to start modding it.

[John M]

Thanks.  Shoe repair shops are few and far between in Atlanta although they exist.  Its a possibility and I actually thought about that month ago and then forgot about it.  I’d rather just farm out the belt but farming out the tough stitches is an option – thanks for reminding me.

[Mike B]

John,

Have you looked at ULA they have a replacement belt that is 42″+. I know you said 44 but maybe it is close or you can modify it slightly.

Mike

 

[Mike B]

Also ZPacks has a belt that is 38+ waists, it may not have enough padding but they may be able to make one larger…….

[John M]

The thing is this: that belt may be long enough but it is for a bag designed for about 35-40 pounds maximum.  An external frame pack carries ALL of the weight on the hipbelt.  I don’t think an ultralight or lightweight pack belt is substantial enough for the 50 lb load I am designing for.  People who have used the ULA pack at near its stated capacity indicate that its uncomfortable.

Thanks for your comments though.  That belt would probably do if it was for a higher max load.

[John M]

Hey, thanks again for the link.  I discovered them also a few days ago.  Its worth an email, but it looks like they make mostly ultralight stuff but its encouraging that they advertise that they do custom work.  I didnt notice that the other day when I checked out their site.

 

[Anonymous]

For a small sewing jobs/areas, have you thought of perhaps trying something like a Speedy Stitch type hand sewing tool?  I used that on some parts of a pack that I couldn’t use my inexpensive sewing machine for.

[John M]

No, but thanks.  I’ll check that out.  The the six moon designs belt with the design I like has bar tacks through what feels like 1/16 ” plastic and maybe 32 inches of straight stitching through the same plastic on two separate seams.  Will a hand held device do a nice job on all of that?

[John M]

I checked out the speedy stitch.  I actually have one of those.  I don’t think thats the tool for the job but thanks for the idea.

[BlackHatGuy]

I ran into a guy (I’m old, I can’t remember his name) at Anvil Camp the other day, seemed like a real nice guy, enjoyed chatting with him. As a side business he builds packs for people per their specs, not his. While all his stuff is UL, he might take on your project. His pack ‘business’ is Eastern Sierra Ultralight, you can find him on Facebook.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure, I haven’t tried to sew through plastic with it.

The nice thing about it, is that you can use Spectra or Dyneema fishing line with it (the kind that can hold a knot), and not have to put in as many stitches, which saves some time/effort.

[John M]

Trying to do 32 inches of nice straight even stitches with that is more than I want to tackle. I attempted about a half inch repair with mine, gave up and threw it away.  I’m a pretty advanced DIYer and I couldn’t make it work.  I can do better hand stitches than I was able to produce with one of those.  Its a good suggestion though – just not for me.  I’m sure people can make them work or they wouldn’t still be in business.

 

[Geoff Caplan]

You might want to check this out https://outlivingblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/24/the-big-ugly/

It’s a pack design based on the Seek Outside, but simplified so it uses flat bars for the frame, which is easier to work with than tubing.. For loads under 70 lbs or so standard 6-series aluminium struts should be fine, rather than the exotic alloy he uses.The maker says it carries big loads exceptionally well, and construction doesn’t look too scary. He’s built it like a tank for handling the abrasion of canyoneering, but if you scaled back the fabrics is could be quite light.

The whole point of the Seek Outside concept is the unique way that their flexible U frame hangs off the wrap-around hip belt, as I’m sure you realise. A few people have blogged about designs based on this idea, and none of them have felt the need to reinforce the hip-belt, even though they are hunters carrying huge loads. But all of them are saying that this approach gives them an exceptional carry.

So based on this idea you might be able to design a belt that works for you but is easier to sew.

[Hoosier T]

I’m not sure actual plastic is needed. I’m currently building my own pack and combined two types of foam and the result is extremely stiff. This is a combination of 1/4″ FY20 foam from owfinc and 1/8″ EVA foam from northshore with a 12lb density which is very stiff. I bought the foam from northshore with the included 3m backer and just stuck it right to the soft foam. The result is a very stiff yet well padded hip belt and it can be sewn through fairly easily.

[John M]

Thanks. I’ll check that link.  I enjoy collecting ideas.

I had planned to start with the frame I have (jansport scout) and then try to lighten up the frame  at some point by building something different with the same dimensions.  My concept for different is laminated bamboo strips with carbon fiber strips as the top and bottom laminations.  I work in aerospace and I’m a structures guy so I know that combo would be strong and light and probably pretty durable.

In looking at the divide it doesn’t look that different than any other framed pack I’ve owned.  Back in the 70’s the hip belt hung from the frame in a similar manner to the divide – a couple of straps on the sides frame the vertical frame struts.

[John M]

You may be right. Could you support 50 lbs off the center section applied over say 4 inches of velcro without it curling up on you?  That seems like too much to ask of foam no matter how stiff it is.  I could have it hang from straps and it wouldn’t need the plastic stiffener – but then that’s changing the design (fusion hip belt) that I know works.  If the foam is fairly inexpensive I could buy some and play around with it.  Thanks for the idea.

I just really like the fusion hipbelt and was going to copy it because I know with certainty it would be a success – if I could construct it.

[Sam C]

I also have the Fusion 50, and am a MYOGer.  A similar style belt could be made at home, the only difference being not to sew through the plastic sheet.  So, simply put, just don’t sew through it.  One way to do this would be to go the ULA route (Brain Frankle designed both belts, and other than the plastic sheet are near the same design) where the foam pad is not fully encased.  Meaning, it can be removed.

As a side note, I question the ability of a stiff hip belt remaining functional at 50lbs.  The belt itself, as a whole, would slip downward and thusly put all the weight onto the shoulders.  It seems counter-intuitive, but something less stiff and possibly thinner would likely perform better.  Then again, your opinion, comfort, and milage is the only one that matters here.

[John M]

Honestly I don’t know but I would like to make something that works well on the first try.  I’m a structural engineer by profession and I’m less worried about the stiffness of the belt than the load path for the loads.  If you don’t stitch through the plastic on a fusion hip belt where the straps attach you’re dumping all of the load right into the cover material which is less than ideal.  You can get away with that for lighter loads.  Anyhow, I’m not being argumentative – just thinking out loud.   Take a close look at yours and feel through the cover material and you’ll see what I mean.  I agree with you that the stiff plastic isn’t needed for the belt to work properly but it does help a lot with the load transfer from the straps into the padded portion.

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