A possible issue with the Zpacks quilt..

[Ty M]

I took some gear out for a PNW test run last night, and pitched up in the middle of the cool Columbia basin desert evening. I snuggled into my 20 degree Zpack quilt resting on my X-lite, with my synthetic baselayers on, expecting a comfy night in the 29 degree weather throughout the night.

 

I woke up at 3 am, quite cold. I could not get back to sleep. Threw my down on, which warmed me right up, but I am very concerned about this quilt’s effectiveness. In 29 degree weather, there should be NO issues with a 20 degree down bag, unless you run very cold. I don’t. Has anyone had a similar issue with their Zpack quilt?

[Jeffs Eleven]

I mean… a 9 degree differential on the rating and an R3.x pad.  Sounds reasonable to me.  Judging by the fact that you put one jacket on and warmed right up means that you were close to the right rating.  EN values are based on an R5 pad.  (I know.. its a quilt) I would suspect that and X-Therm would do the trick.

FWIW The rating systems are subjective… Maybe you sleep a little colder than “the avg man”  What a wuss!!  JK… I sleep cold too.

 

I sleep in a zpzcks 30* and have to be bundled up to get to 35* in it cause I sleep cold and I use 3.3 pad.  I just know this and adjust accordingly.  (and I’m looking at an R5 pad)  I have always had trouble keeping warm though, regardless of pad, bag, or quilt

 

[Bruce Tolley]

Ty

There was a whole thread on quilts, manufacturer vs EN ratings for quilts, and the R ratings for sleeping pads just yesterday or the day before. The main conclusion I drew from the thread was make sure you have a sufficient insulating pad. Check it out.

 

Also did you feel like you were losing heat through the pad or from the upward part of your body.

I personally have found that while camping on snow in 10 to 20 degree ambient temps my Xtherm with a theoretical R value of 5 to be very sensitive to what appeared to be radiant heat loss from the sides of the pad. So I started putting my closed cell on the top of the Xtherm and the Xthem inside the bivy sack (vs underneath the bivy sack).

 

[Ty M]

Jeff- Maybe I am a wuss. Pride will keep me from upgrading to an XTherm anytime soon, though!

 

Bruce, that’s a very good point. However, my underside felt toasty. I also found a nice insulated piece of ground, too, so I’m not sure it’s the pad’s fault. Just a bit nervous for the Sierras this summer for this very reason.

[Andy Berner]

Did you hike in your baselayers? Or put them on before going to sleep?

If you hiked in them they could of been damp from sweat and that could of made you cold.

[James holden]

headgear?

;)

[Ken Larson]

I believe many important  ingredients that may have contributed to you feeling uncomfortable have been mentioned. I would like to add that the water and calorie intake prior to bed is a big ingredient to you sleeping better and being warm AND having your neck area covered along with the hat Eric mentioned,  will be of great benefit for a non mummy bag such as the ZPacks Quilt and “open mouth” bags.

[Barry P]

I’ve used a zpacks 20F quilt since 2010.And, I use an X-lite. But for the last 2 years I’ve been using a Sea To Summit UltraLight Insulated Mat the most because it’s more comfortable and I can lay on my side w/o the arm going numb. But it’s 4oz heavier than the xlite :(. However, for some reason, I do well in the 20’s. But with my X-lite I had to add a GG thinlight (2.5oz). And that made it warmer. I also add a pack towel over my face (actually— the complete head) and breathe into it (and I wear a beanie to bed— not a goose down hood). That keeps my head very warm and the breath frost will collect on the outside of the towel (and stay away from the quilt). It has to be a very close knitted towel for that to work.

I do get clammier in a zpack quilt than a WM bag. But my synthetic base layer (saved for sleeping) keeps it wicked out of the quilt. I wonder if that’s because Zpack uses non-breathable cuben fiber baffles; i.e., a vapor barrier? But for me that’s worth the saving of weight and my base layer can handle it.

As others have mentioned— your diet before bed is critical.

May everyone sleep well,

-Barry

-The Tetons were made for Tevas

[Yoyo]

There are many variables to consider, but one of the most important is how many ounces of down you need to stay warm given your sleep system.  I think a lot of talk on BPL like “I can use a 30 degree quilt with a 1/8″ CCF pad” at 25 F is just that–talk.  That, or some of us just have extra insulation or have a different body metabolism.

For me, personally, my 20 degree Zpacks quilt/bag is good down to around 30 F, depending on humidity.  That’s wearing lightweight top and bottom baselayers and sometimes a ZPacks down balaclava.  Sleeping pad is a Exped UL Synmat 7.  Sometimes I’m so cold that I also need my MH Ghost Whisperer 7 oz down puffy as well.  If I were doing a thru-hike on the PCT or CDT, I’d probably go with a 10 degree bag…or get some down pants from Goosefeet gear.

Now, I have a body fat percentage around 7% or so, so your mileage may vary.

 

[Author]

Posts