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A NEW PARADIGM FOR UNDERSTANDING WPB FABRICS


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Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 101 total)
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  • #3529978
    Paul S
    BPL Member

    @pula58

    I got curious about the Columbia Rain jackets and called them to ask which ones had actual pit zips and might be good for backpacking. The  person on the phone was absolutely clueless, and did not even know what pit zips were. Fail.

     

    #3529980
    Brad Rogers
    BPL Member

    @mocs123

    Locale: Southeast Tennessee

    To my knowledge neither of the “lightweight” Outdry EX jackets have pit-zips.  The Featherlight has two pockets on the front of the jacket for ventilation and the Caldorado has open underarm vents of some sort (no zip).

     

    Very interested to here reports of how these shells perform in the field.

    #3530019
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Richard’s is the definitive article. Of course I am willing to answer an questions I can-no pit zips.

    Perhaps Richard might kindly provide the link again?

    Rain forecast today here and I am going walking so maybe I can glean a little about performance.

    cheers G

    #3530030
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Here is where my pdf report can be found.

    #3530143
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Some thoughts after some walking in the rain in this Jacket.

    Wore only a short sleeved  -Departure shirt by Icebreaker-merino

    (https://www.rei.com/product/864034/icebreaker-departure-shirt-mens)

    under the jacket this morning in light soaking rain for two hours-walking at an average of 5 kms/hr including short hills and deep soft beach sand,  3 kg rucksack, shorts, very low wool socks and highly meshed trail runners.

    Temps between “19.8C (apparent 16.6)  and 20.3C (apparent 15.2) Bureau of Meteorology”

    Along the coast from Anglesea to Bells Beach (yes that Bells Beach) and back. Up short sharp hills and about 2kms soft beach walking. Marked on google easy to find if you are inclined. About 22 kms all up.

    Hood on, unzipped 10cms from top just under chin, and sleeves done up loosely, front vents SHUT.

    Tried to make challenging conditions.

    Like the character in Dirty Harry when Clint points the gun at him “I gots to know!”

    It took one hour of hard walking to get some sweat up (the beach sand walking really pushed things along!) and then however, only on the forearms and top of head -where the fabric was directly on skin. Felt perfectly fine, I knew it was damp but not clammy at all. Same amount of sweat on the scalp if I were to wear a baseball cap. DID NOT feel hot at any time. This was quite remarkable. Sat on the bluff above the “Tiger snake breeding ground” -it’s on the map. Deliberately locked all the fasteners down/zip up. My exposed skin to the fabric forearms and top of head that was wet dried almost instantly. My shirt stayed damp, but I was warm and very comfortable. Sat half an hour, had a cuppa then set off-within one km my shirt began drying, the rain had stopped and I took the jacket off. So far a win I reckon. Rain on Saturday so hopefully I will get to walk a full 4-5 hours in the rain and can give some more useful feedback.

    I have a Lightheart Gear Sil/PU jacket and a Marmot Nano AS-Goretex Active I can compare it to then a little better. If it rains -we are often disappointed when rain is forecast here. This was the first little bit of rain in about 3 months. Cheers

    #3533436
    Mike N
    BPL Member

    @yoboyobo

    Let me know if this is inappropriate content:

    There is a Columbia outlet store near me that had a blue men’s medium OutDry EX Caldorado on the clearance rack. I believe with their current sale and standard discounts, the price would be $50 or less . If anyone is interested, let me know and I’ll only charge cost plus shipping.

    #3534275
    Opogobalus
    Spectator

    @opagobalus

    I’m curious how these this fabric compares to non breathable designs with heavy emphasis on ventilation (eg the packa, roger caffins mountain poncho), in terms of thermoregulation. I imagine if temps are likely to be below 45f regularly with a fair bit of exposure, a jacket like this makes sense?

    #3534279
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Environments where you need to stay dry and warm are applicable to this fabric.

    Environments where you need to stay dry, and don’t require warmth, are applicable to a heavily ventilated WP fabric.

    #3534283
    Opogobalus
    Spectator

    @opagobalus

    A master of concision, you are Richard. Thanks for all your work.

    Some mulling over of clothing systems before a High Pyrénées traverse in a couple of months.

    #3534664
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “There would be a real market (on BPL at least) for a set of simple rain pants in this material in the 4-5oz range.  In any kind of brush the DWR is gone off a set of rain pants in a couple of hours.”

    I’m not sure if it’s still available or not, but EPIC Malibu fabric (outer) combined with Tyvek 1443R (inner) would give plenty of non wetting out protection for pant’s use and be close to that weight range. It would occasionally need to be washed with a very alkaline substance and hot’ish water to break up oil accumulation.

    This new Outdry Ex featherweight stuff looks interesting (and a definite improvement over the majority of stuff out there), but is a bit out of my price range. I’m mostly happy with own non wetting out, WPB poncho for warmer weather and Paramo type stuff for cooler weather. Now if I could just find some tightly woven polypropylene based fabrics or lighter EPIC fabrics (like the Malibu), I’d be able to design even better stuff.

    #3535364
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Just a wee update to my earlier post on the EX Featherweight.
    I now have about 35-37 hours I think with this jacket (absolutely NEVER wet out thus far), in total, all in the rain,  Saturday morning just gone, I had 8 mm over four hours, with strong wind.
    I walked (just short of) the entire time this last Saturday with the front vents fully open. I did shut them when I stopped for twenty to have a coffee, then left them shut for about 20 mins to warm back up. Temps were between 5C-8C (with the wind chill). There is a BOM (Bureau of Meteorology) station nearby.
    No rain ingress through the front fully open vents even when walking face first into the wind and rain. By that time though, the rain was falling in smaller drops. Also no rain in through the face part of the hood.
    I was not dodging branches nor seeking them out, just walked, hit a few, brushed a few, got mud all over the back from the pack after putting it down in mud-Richard Cranium (Australian euphimism)!
    The movement (?) of that humid air seems worth remarking on.
    One, through the fabric with absolute certainty I can’t comment. Would need some apparatus for that. But my arms and torso not right near the vents were quite “dry” to my touch. My under (LS Merino polo shirt) clothes remained “dry”, even the feel of my 100wt fleece (230gms in M) surface was “dry” except for two small patches 6cms X 6 above my chest. (And between my shoulder blades) I maintained a good pace walking up and down (not mountainous) for 4 hours covering about 18ks.
    My very thin like a stocking almost, merino beanie remained “dry” as did my head under it. The inner fabric of the jacket hood was a tad “damp”.
    Two, through the vents. With them open I kept warm/comfy not over heated. Thus, I was pretty right for that temp with those clothes. I also had shorts and rain kilt on light mesh runners and my feet were wet (not cold) for about 2 and 1/2 hours.
    Some bush (not heavy), track and road walking. Checked around all the points where rubbing abrasion might be noticed, none at all to be seen to the naked eye.
    This was all done Daywalking, with a 3-5 kg pack- I loaded it heavier than I would normally and walked a bit faster to to try and inundate the fabric with some extra heat. Abrasion/or lack of from a heavier sack I cannot comment upon at this time.
    I do trust it (to the extent that) now I will take it walking with me on my next multi day walk (4 days) using a 9-10 kg total sack, where I will be basically on tracks and where rain is expected, as my wet weather protection. So these are my preliminary (very) thoughts after very limited use. Thanks Richard for your original work again on this, I took a punt, and things seem very positive thus far.

    #3535367
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Graham,

    Thank you for your comprehensive field tests.

    #3537046
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Hello Richard,

    I just returned from walking the last four days in the very south of mainland Australia with a 11kg rucksack and weather conditions somewhat more extreme than I was expecting, these are they-http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW3085.latest.shtml

    I tried for half an hour to print the table here then gave up, if you are able, you are welcome to.

    The dates in question are Wednesday the 16th through to Sunday the 20th of May. I was expecting a cold front and some showers. This region is I believe, the wettest and windiest in the state. What is not showing on the table is the combined wind chill and humidity effect. What our Bureau calls the “apparent temperature”. That was listed (from my daughters checking-most of the area is outside mobile phone range at it’s lowest as around 1C to about a maximum of 5C for the whole time I was wearing the EX Featherweight),against the stated temps listed on the table I linked. From Wednesday pm to through to Friday 1pm I wore the Columbia Ex Featherweight. Some things to note -nether the outside nor inside wet out, I was warm (too warm), my under (jacket) clothes dampened, when I reached several exposed (very windy!) places I only had to put an ultra thin merino beanie and event Borah mitts on to remain comfortable.

    My question relates to being far more thermo neutral which I was unable to quite manage. I was on my own, up and down some steepish hills along the coast and did not see anybody whilst walking for three of the four days so I did not want to stop, I ploughed on to the next stop fairly rapidly, through low, soaking but not heavy scrub. When the rain came it did not stop, so I did not get my 100wt fleece off. Thus, I had a bit of steaming going on. What would you recommend when rain comes from seemingly nowhere? I felt if I had just my Cap 4 on underneath I would have been too cold, but I never got to find out. I have worn both a Goretex and event jacket in similar circumstances and the sleeves from fairly constant brushing on foliage and the shoulders became wettish. As I was also damp inside I became cold. As mentioned this was easily controlled with the Columbia and the mitts and thin beanie. I wore shorts with a rain kilt covering them and low wool  socks and meshed shoes (through which multiple leeches snuck in and were wet the entire time-but not cold). Best way to start off if I think rain is imminent with the Columbia? Put on only the Cap 4 and go, I am guessing that I should have found some way to get the fleece off, but getting it in my rucksack in rain-any ideas, no matter how obvious, gladly welcomed. Thanks Graham

    #3537149
    Jeff McWilliams
    BPL Member

    @jjmcwill

    Locale: Midwest

    Living in Michigan, I stopped by the Columbia Outlet store in Birch Run, which is over an hour from where I live, so this was a brief lunch stop while returning from a trip “up north” as we call it.

    The lightest Outdry Ex jacket they had in the store was the OutDry Ex Light, which I don’t think is in production any longer.  I got it for $40.00, so hard to pass up at that price.  The size L weighs 11.9 ounces on my digital scale, so quite a bit heavier than the Featherweight.  On the other hand, that’s lighter than the Marmot Eclipse EVODry, the only other hiking jacket on the market advertising a permanent DWR.

    This jacket doesn’t have pit zips, but it has two large “front pocket” zips, and the pocket interiors are meshy, so they should allow some airflow when they are open.

    Time will tell how I like it.  My current jacket is a 3-layer eVent jacket that I bought from Luke’s Ultralite back in 2015, and while I have no major complaints with it, I’m interested in how this permanent beading fabric will work.

     

     

     

    #3537187
    Richard Nisley
    BPL Member

    @richard295

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Graham’s weather conditions table for two posts prior:

    The theorectical ideal layering for this range of conditions would have been a Cap 4 base layer (moves liquid water away from skin). While wearing a Cap 4, you will subconciously increase your MET rate when you feel cool up to a point.

    The insulation layer, only if static or cold, was correct in being a Polartec 100 (moves vapor water away from skin). You can keep your groundsheet accessible in case, you misjudged insulation requirements and need to add or subtract while it is raining.

    #3537269
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Thanks Richard for both the confirmation and suggestion.

    #3539939
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Hello Richard, can you confirm something for me please? Looking at the Patagonia specs for the Thermal weight Hoody from their site it says:
    <h1 class=”product-name”>”Patagonia Men’s Capilene® Thermal Weight Zip-Neck</h1>
    <h1 class=”product-name”>Features</h1>

    • “Polartec® Power Grid™ fabric with Polygiene® permanent odor control has a smooth face for easy layering; fabric’s open-grid pattern next to skin provides superior warmth, breathability and moisture-wicking performance; spandex for stretch and ease of movement”.
    • My question -is this Power Dry by another or Patagonia’s nomenclature?
    • Have patagonia changed from the Powerdry to Powergrid? It seems to me they have?
    • thanks
    • Graham (bloody software has added dots and changed fonts)
    #3539950
    Woubeir (from Europe)
    BPL Member

    @woubeir

    Powergrid is just the new name for Powerdry with grid structure (see also Polartec-website).

    #3540086
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

     

    Bloody polartec website-that’s where the confusion began.

    Powerdry is listed there as a separate entity to Powergrid. So it is still unclear.

    #3540129
    Jeff McWilliams
    BPL Member

    @jjmcwill

    Locale: Midwest

    I think talking about Power Dry vs Power Grid is taking this particular thread off topic, as it’s focus is on WPB fabrics.

    That being said, keep in mind that even within a single marketing name for a fabric, PolarTec can have many different styles.  To get an idea of what I’m talking about, browse through the fabrics you can order from MillYardage some time.  What you’ll find is many style numbers.

    Heck, even Cabela’s base layer, which can be seen as a competitor to the Patagonia Capilene thermal weight, uses THREE different weights of Power Dry in their product.

     

    #3540222
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    “The focus here is WPB fabrics”. Oh, must have missed that.

    #3540224
    Woubeir (from Europe)
    BPL Member

    @woubeir

    Off-topic then: it used to be listed on their website as  ‘Powerdry High Efficiency’ (separate from ‘classic’ Powerdry)

    #3540244
    Graham F
    BPL Member

    @02174424

    Locale: Victoria-Southeast Australia

    Thanks Woubeir.

    #3540665
    wander lust
    Spectator

    @sol

    Hi there,

    is there any shirt or jacket made of epic with approx. 30cfm and 300mm hydrostatic head in a civil color aka no multicam?

    the wild things windshirt 1.0 in brown has a low cfm.

    Arcteryx can’t tell me the cfm value of the current Squamish btw. I suppose it’s still the same as the 2015, cause the material values hadn’t been changed.

    or does anyone has any further insight to this?

    Im still looking for a decently robust highly breathable windshirt / jacket for hiking and mtb.

     

    Thx.

    #3540672
    Brad Rogers
    BPL Member

    @mocs123

    Locale: Southeast Tennessee

    If you are a men’s small or smallish medium I have a Wild Things Epic windshirt in grey that’s too small for me.  It’s a medium but it’s smaller than many mediums (including my Houdini).

Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 101 total)
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