Design THE perfect light winter backpack

[HkNewman]

Open to suggestions: A pack that can do the "worst" for regular backpacking (not mountaineering or climbing), which is haul snow mobility gear halfway up a mountain, where said gear needs to be put on. Features:

Mostly VX with some dyneema grid thrown in
Daisy chains to attach snow mobility gear
3 compression starts on both sides
Bottom compression straps
Quick access pocket for layers, mo gloves/mittens, etc.
Detachable water bottle holders (sized to include insulation)
Sized bigger than the ULA Catalyst but not by much (say 3 days out?) w/similar frame or with similar capability

No hydration system (lines freeze I've found)

[Richard Fischel]

what do you consider "light." and while your not going to be doing any mountaineering, there are several makers of "mountaineering" packs that have most if not all of what you are looking for. for a three day trip i'd have no problem with a pack that has a main compartment that's 40l.

[HkNewman]

@Richard – looking at the same thing after I wrote this (trimmed snowsport pack?) and this would actually be in Spring, so not much hanging around camp clothing. Looking at 15-20°F colder than a typical 3-season hike at most. At 0°F, a sil-solo shelter in the mid-20 oz's with inner (maybe mid -30 oz), sleeping insulation, Patagonia Nano-Air (testing — great CW layer but doesn't conpress much), adequate stove, maybe a ridge-rest, … Dream-gear: will have to look at Exped "Winterlite"

[Eric Blumensaadt]

HK, you've nailed down a lot of good design ideas.

Here are a few more to think about.

1. 70 liters max size

2. Extendable top sleeve of about 10 " with its own drawstring can add another 5 liters. (hangs down inside pack when not in use) This assumes a pocket style lid with extendable QR buckles, 2 in front and 2 in back. (See Granite Gear for these as aftermarket items.)

3. Bottom compression straps must be able to double as sleeping bag &/or mattress straps.

4. Removable side pockets (great when you just can't get all the gear inside the main pack, useful as fanny packs.) Again Granite Gear has the best I've seen.

5. Hydration bladder sleeve. Believe me, with a Camelbak thick neoprene hose insulator and a wrapped hand warmer inside, against the bladder you'll be OK.

OTOH… you can look at Osprey's offerings. Backpacker Magazine (online) just praised one as a good winter pack. I like their neat trampoline-style back panel. It permits a lot of your sweat to pass through instead of wetting your insulation so much.

[Michael Wainfeld]

Here you go!

[Christian Edstrom]

I was thinking along the same lines and placed an order for a MLD Super Exodus recently. Full Dyneema X, 50l, 22-23 oz, frameless but seems to meet your other criteria. I'll be using mine for winter overnights and long weekends in the Northeast.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

"Military intelligence"

"Jumbo shrimp"

"Compassionate Republicans"

"Frameless winter backpacks" (Frameless backpacks are otherwise known as "lumps".)

*** Oh, wait, there IS a place in winter camping for a frameless pack – inside a pulk.

[Christian Edstrom]

Ok. Diff'rent strokes. I find a frameless lump of 25 lbs perfectly comfortable for BC skiing and summit hikes in the Cats, Dacks, and Whites. Lightweight and all that.

[Bob Moulder]

@Michael… what model shovel is that?

Looks like some flavor of Voile. I like how far the handle collapses.

[Tipi Walter]

Nice pic Michael.

Obviously the OP mentioned using the pack for winter backpacking and not dayhiking which is a whole different animal. Michael's pack pic shows something quite large which is the general rule for carrying alot of crap in the winter. If it's a 20 day winter trip w/o resupply, well, we're talking about the ability to not only hump in the winter accoutrements of Tools (shovel, snowshoes, etc) but also the tremendous 40 lb food load (and fuel load).

ERGO a big pack is needed.

What's the perfect pack then?

[David Ure]

"ERGO a big pack is needed."

For lightweight backpackers, of which you are not, most can get away with a 40L pack for 3 season treks. 60L is just fine for winter treks for most lightweight backpackers for a week of excursion. 40b of food? Always the fall back for Tipi. I am still awaiting his gear list…..

[Mike M]

the Exped Lightning 60 checks off multiple items on the perfect winter backpack list-ample room for mult-day trips, very nice frame system (and adjustable!)-yet still in the lighweight range (39 oz), roll top, very weather resistant and the material thus far has proven very rugged, very roomy waist pockets for items needed handy, stretch side pockets that easily accomodate insulated Nalgenes, good lashing system on the exterior

it carries 25-35 #'s very nicely, probably more

[Michael Wainfeld]

That's a BD Deploy shovel. Obviously the pack above (McHale LBP 36) is not a "Light" winter pack. But it's very comfortable, and an easy pack to use and "live"out of. It's also modular-heres a pic of it stripped down to daypack mode.

[HkNewman]

Was thinking about a McHale with a hood add-on and daisy chains to strap on gear. I think the smaller capacities would be useful on a hut-to-hut or yurt hike where only carrying survival gear. Of course there's been some Sierra snow trip reports using lightwt Osprey 65L packs but they didn't need to strap snowshoes or skis (they were wearing the later)

[Anonymous]

"Frameless winter backpacks" (Frameless backpacks are otherwise known as "lumps".)

Well, i don't know about you, but i'd might rethink the label of lumps considering the following link (below)

Because, when i'm checking out another guy's pack, i don't want to be accused of checking out his lumps. Especially if i blurt out, wow, sweet lumps…

[Christian Edstrom]

If it's a 20-day trip in winter, you're pulling a pulk. Even 7 days would steer you toward a pulk unless there were some very specific contravening circumstances.

A solo 3-4 day winter backpacking load shouldn't have to exceed 30 pounds and that's using a double-wall shelter. Sometimes I wonder if the winter hiking forum is on the same site as the rest of the forums…

[David Ure]

"Sometimes I wonder if the winter hiking forum is on the same site as the rest of the forums…"

Tipi is the antithesis of a lightweight backpacker even in the warm summer months so don't let this discourage you. Every forum has an anomaly.

[Mike M]

Christian said "A solo 3-4 day winter backpacking load shouldn't have to exceed 30 pounds and that's using a double-wall shelter. Sometimes I wonder if the winter hiking forum is on the same site as the rest of the forums…"

wholeheartedly agree- you might need a little more volume, but the weight doesn't have to be significantly more than a 3 season trip (more fuel, larger pot to melt snow, more r value in your pad, warmer bag, few extra pieces of clothing)-maybe 5-7 lbs, certainly not more than 10 lbs

[Bob Gross]

Many winter backpackers are on cross country skis. The difference between a summer backpacker and a winter skier involves the poles. A summer backpacker either uses no poles at all, or else a couple of trekking poles. These are normally carried such that the poles are placed just slightly in front of the feet, and they are not used much behind the feet. A cross country skier has poles, but they very seldom go far in front of the feet. They get more push when they are planted around the feet and then pushed to the rear. As a result of this difference in poling, a skier has his upper arms moving much more to the rear than a summer backpacker. Therefore, the skier backpack needs to be narrower to avoid the arms hitting it. I've tried to ski with a normal backpack, and it is not good. The narrow skier pack can be a little tall, but you don't want it to get too tall or else you get a different balance problem. Hip belts need to be substantial, and sternum straps improve balance a lot.

So, when doing light fast trans-Sierra ski trips in just a few days, I could get by with 3000-3500 cubic inches in volume. The pack would have a couple of metal stiffeners, but no real solid frame. When doing longer ski trips, maybe up to a week in length, I could get by with 3500-4000 cubic inches in volume. When doing a two-week trip, I think I moved all the way up to 5500 cubic inches, and that was certainly not lightweight.

–B.G.–

[Paul McLaughlin]

I make my own packs, so I have summer packs and a ski pack. The differences between the two:
The ski pack is naturally bigger to handle the extra bulk of warmer stuff.
The ski pack is slightly heavier tougher fabric. I'm on skis, so guess what, I fall down go boom. Thus the pack needs to be able to handle that.
My summer packs don't have any zippered pockets, just elastic at the top of the pockets. In the rain I have a rain cover. My ski pack has zippers on the pockets to keep out snow.
My ski pack has removable side pockets mounted on compression straps – not that I ever remove the side pockets but when I need to carry my skis they go down between pockets and pack.
I don't do daisy chains, but I have compression straps across the back and my shovel goes there. Also ice axe loop at lower back, with shaft of axe under the compression straps.
My packs are all internal frame; the summer packs have skinnier stays than the ski pack.
The ski pack has a more substantial hipbelt to handle the heavier load.
The ski pack has a top flap pocket; the summer packs have no top flap, justy a drawstring. I find I have more need of handy access to various stuff like gloves/mittens/hats/goggles on a ski trip than I do in the summer, thus the added pocket; and naturally a flap to keep out snow.
The ski pack has an extension sleeve so that I can load it to the max and still be able to seal it up.
I designed my ski pack with the idea that it would max out at a 14 day trip. I haven't used that max capacity yet; 9 days is my longest ski trip. at 9 days I'm around 38 – 39 lbs all in, with crampons and ice axe and climbing skins. When I have to carry skis and boots that adds about 10 lbs to that so I've been close to 50 lbs max and that pushes the suspension of that pack about as far as I'd want to push it. So if I did go for a 14 day trip on skis I'd want to make sure I could ski from the car and not have to carry skis at the beginning while the food load was at the max. I would say I hit it about right size-wise, as I think I could just get that 14 days worth of food in there. I don't know what the cubic inches are, as I have no easy way to measure.
I don't do hydration systems – I've never found I need to carry that much water, so I just have a water bottle in a side pocket. I don't do deep winter, just Sierra spring skiing, so we're not talking deep cold.

What I would do different on a second ski pack: Probably a little smaller. I probably won't take that 14 day trip, so I'd rather have a pack that I had to cram fiercely to get everything in for a 9-day trip. I'd also do some reinforcing on the sides where the skis go between pockets and pack. Haven't had an issue yet with ski edges cutting anything but I worry about it. I'd beef up the hipbelt a little, as the very slight added weight would be well worth it for when skis and boots go on the pack at the start of a trip when I have to hike to reach the snowline.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I agree with Christian regarding pulls. Even a 4 to 5 day trip can be a lot nicer with a well made pulk – IF the terrain is not too steep.

My setup has longer wands for XC skis and shorter for snowshoes. It also has a rear hinge that acts as a "backup brake". You'd be surprised at how fast a loaded pulk can go downhill and straight through brush with no brake. (Don't ask… :o)

And a pulk makes a very nice wind break for your stove when you set your your kitchen.

[Michael Wainfeld]

http://www.coldcoldworldpacks.com/chaos.htm

This pack always looked interesting to me also.

[Mike M]

lots of options on build, material, etc- should be able to find close to THE perfect light winter pack there

http://www.cilogear.com/packs.html

[Richard Fischel]

that's my current pack of choice. 40/45l worksack is plenty big for 3 to 5 days of winter camping.

here's my old 40l with a winter load out. no change of clothing except for socks and gloves. my cushion for colder temperatures is to plan on sleeping with everything on. skin out i'd be wearing running tights followed by rei acme pants, synthetic base layer long sleeve shirt followed by a power stretch 3/4 zipped hoodie and a wild things epic windshirt. in most situations i'd leave the event shell in the trunk of the car. if it's colder i'd switch out the belay jacket for a ff volant and maybe add the wild things version of the arcteryx atom lt hoodie.

sorry about the cut and paste:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=55176&nid=466402&print=1

[Nick Gatel]

This one does everything you are asking for.

McHale LBP36 with P&G

[Author]

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