Cuben vs Hybrid backpacks

[Sven N]

Is there a big difference in durability (including bushwacking) between 1.42 oz/sqyd cuben and hybrid as used in zPacks zero? How much longer would a hybrid survive? (I'm fine with taping punctures & frays).

[Brendan Swihart]

Yes, huge difference.

[Chad B]

Can't really give a time frame on how much longer hybrid would last vs cuben, too many variables. 2.92oz Cuben Hybrid is much tougher than 1.43oz cuben. For me personally, I'll take the small weight penalty of the hybrid for more durability.

[Tim Marshall]

Isn't it the same cuben but the hybrid has another fabric laminated to it?

-Tim

[Chad B]

yeah, it's 50 Denier Polyester. The regular cuben side is going to be on the inside of the pack and the polyester on the outside. Makes it much tougher and more resistant to abrasion.

[Chad B]

Not to derail but . . . aren't you working on a pack design Tim?

[Earl Gilbert]

Taken from Zpacks website

"2.92 oz/sqyd Cuben Hybrid This material is made from the same 1.43 oz/sqyd Cuben Fiber as seen above on the inside, with a protective layer of 50 Denier Polyester on the outside. The outer layer gives it more strength, and abrasion resistance, prevents fraying, and gives it a nice solid color. This material is used on our Arc Blast Backpacks."

so yeah, it has polyester on the outside. I have a cuben fiber hybrid backpack from Seekoutside just for that reason. I wanted the lighter weight, but reviews I read with straight Cuben fiber backpacks speak to durabilty issues. I figured if I'm using a trash compacter liner, I shouldn't get the wear and tear on the inside of the pack and the polyester laminate will give it some abrasion resistance on the outside.

[Tim Marshall]

Chad,

Working on? Yes. Anywhere close to releasing? No;)

-Tim

[Anonymous]

You can sometimes get silnylon and 1.1 oz nylon for around 3 dollars a yard. Why not sew and/or bond (silicone adhesive) some UL cuben in between a layer of 30D silnylon (outside) and 1.1 nylon (inside)?

The cuben would provide high tensile strength and keep the material composite from stretching, and the outer layer of 30D silnylon and inner 30D nylon layer would provide abrasion resistance. 30D silnylon is probably as good, if not better, for this than the 50D polyester they laminate on just the outside of the hybrid cuben because the slickness of silnylon and because nylon has a bit higher tensile strength and more innate stretch which both contribute to higher wear/abrasion resistant properties at less weight/thickness than polyester (which are both strengthened by the silicone coating).

If you use the .51 cuben, it will be very slightly heavier than the hybrid cuben (if you include silicone adhesive weight), but not by much, but would still be cheaper. If you use the .34, it would come out to a similar weight (slightly under) and would be cheaper.

I wonder what would be ultimately tougher, the above type composite or the 2.92 hybrid cuben? Ideally, one would use something like 70D silnylon on the outside, and Argon on the inner but that would really increase price and to a lesser extent weight over the 2.92 hybrid cuben stuff.

[Sven N]

Thanks for the replies! Huge difference, does that mean hybrid is twice as durable or rather ten (10!) times as durable compared to naked cuben?

[Earl Gilbert]

Its more durable, but without actually wearing out a pack, hard to say. Reviews I read on the ArcBlast says after an AT through-hike, the interior of the pack started showing wear from taking gear in and out of it everyday. The Cuben fiber began to delaminate on the interior of the pack body. Zpacks rates their packs for ~1800 miles so that makes sense. The exterior should be fine as long as you don't drop it on sharp rocks or brush.

[Jerry Adams]

Pack has maybe 1 yd2 of fabric

Any nylon that's 4 oz/yd2 is strong enough. Dynema is good. 200d oxford also works pretty good. 1.5 oz/yd2 silnylon marginally strong enough.

Cuben will be strong enough but only weigh 2 oz/yd2? so you save maybe 2 ounces. Hardly worth talking about.

A tent has maybe 10 yd2? If you go from 1.5 oz/yd2 sil, to 0.7 oz/yd2 cuben, you save 8 ounces. That is a better application for Cuben.

From a marketing point of view though, Cuben is great! The new, expensive, cool stuff.

[James holden]

BPL did a review of packs a few years back

one thing that i worked out when the numbers were crunched was that the denier of the fabric had little correlation with the total weight of the pack

even using 400D+ fabric didnt mean a heavier pack in comparison with its lower denier fabric competitors

perhaps its time to do the same review again with cuben packs?

regardless i suspect that other things than the fabric weight matters more towards the total weight

is cuben fabric more abrasion resistant than say 400-800D+ nylon? (the standard on climbing packs)

;)

[John Almond]

The primary drivers of pack weight are not the fabric used but rather the frame (if any), padding, hardware, and strapping. Each individual component of those isn't usually terribly heavy, but they add up QUICK.

Hope it helps!

[Sven N]

If so, and if only a few oz more heavy, I'm interested in a leightweight pack that's much like zPacks zero, but not in cuben. Where to find such a pack (44+L) that weighs only 2 to 3 oz more (as stated above) than zPacks zero in cuben (4.6 oz)

[John Almond]

I'm sure that many folks will respond with good packs in that range. However, Chris Zimmer of Zimmerbuilt will make you one with whatever features you want, and I'm pretty sure that Joe over at ZPacks would be willing to make you a Zero out of another fabric. Both have excellent customer service.

Hope it helps!

[Edward Jursek]

I would also recommend Zimmerbuilt. He uses cuben, hybrid cuben, dyneema, x-pac. Lots of options and his customer service and quality are excellent. Give him some input on design, materials and target weight and he will build it for you.

[Sven N]

These custom Zimmerbuilt packs start at 200 $, that's even more than just a zPacks zero in cuben. What's the sense to go for a pack in cheaper material if it makes the pack even more expensive…

[Link .]

MLD Newt
2014 NEWT

9oz

1700 ci / 28L

All Dyneema X (TM) Construction: 210d Ripstop Nylon and Dyneema plus an extra X pattern overweave for high strength, lightweight and durability. (Much tougher and abrasion resistant than thinner and lower content 140d nylon+dyneema plain weave fabrics.)

$69

[M B]

Cuben hybrid is certainly not real abrasion resistant in my experience.

However, it is very puncture resistant

Obviously not to needles.

When considering cuben packs, ULA did puncture testing with a metal spike. The hybrid cuben had significantly more resistance than the normal heavy material being used as bottom fabric on the cicuit, at half the weight.

[Author]

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