Dec 15, 2012 at 6:30 am #1297067
@cooldripLocale: "Grand Canyon of the East"
In reading about yesterday's events, I immediately wondered about those close to me. Hopefully none of my fellow BPL members were involved personally in yesterday's tragedy. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of those who were; I have no words.Dec 15, 2012 at 8:20 am #1935586
@obxcolaLocale: Outer Banks of North Carolina
Newtown is a picture perfect "Norman Rockwell" New England small town. Have a look
I went to see Lincoln last night for the second time. The man was so gentle; I can see the scene of him getting down on the floor embracing Todd and then lifting him up piggy-back. But he was also so strong, so resolute. He refused to look away.
Have a look at little Newtown. Maybe making a little virtual visit will help start the process of really looking at what we are doing to ourselves.
So Scott how are things in beautiful Valdese, home of Joe Brown? I can hear Bill Curry "the mouth of the South" now. You a descendant of the Waldensians?Dec 15, 2012 at 9:30 am #1935605
Hopefully, people will survive this as best they can. And other incidents like the one that just happened in Portland.
Are these just rare events that we shouldn't worry about?
Maybe don't do so much reporting on the TV?
At least we shouldn't make the killer famous which might encourage others to do the same, like don't use the person's name or show his picture?
It doesn't seem like gun regulations would help much. The person in Portland used an assault weapon, but not Newtown, so making these illegal wouldn't be very effective? Maybe making clips that hold more than 10 rounds? Maybe not allowing more than one shot per second or something?
On NPR they observed that most killers are young white males that are mentally disturbed, have a facination with guns, and like video games. I don't know where you go with that though…Dec 15, 2012 at 10:40 am #1935616
@owareLocale: Steptoe Butte
These sort of tragedies really start a huge national brainstorm. Hopefully in the long run emotions give way to finding the real
problems and then effective answers.
Edited- kinda decided this isn't the place I want to debate.Dec 15, 2012 at 10:45 am #1935617
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
It's a tragedy, but all these events are linked by easy access to guns. A day or so ago, a similar incident happened in China. China is very strict on gun ownership. In the Chinese incident, the guy used a knife, and stabbed over 20 students. They are all expected to recover.
Mental illness, guns, ………..Dec 15, 2012 at 11:02 am #1935622
Do you enjoy being wrong? Because in 2010 6 of these incidents happened in China. 20 dead and 50 wounded. And they weren't linked to easy access to guns.
The gun is just the mode. You see knives, pipebombs, and whatever weapon the people can get their hands on.Dec 15, 2012 at 11:24 am #1935625
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
I'm confused by the point you are trying to make Michael?
Can you provide links to your assertions?
Anyway, i don't want to comment on this anymore. Too many folks have lost loved ones.Dec 15, 2012 at 11:35 am #1935628
@cameronLocale: Idaho Falls
If this thread is going to go into an endless gun control debate could we wait? I don't mind those debates at all but it seems like poor taste at the moment. For all I know we may have members here connected to the tragedy in some way.Dec 15, 2012 at 2:55 pm #1935663
– -K.T.- –Participant
+1 with Luke.Dec 15, 2012 at 2:59 pm #1935665
I think our focus needs to be on the victims and their families.
– Charlotte Bacon, 02/22/06, female.
– Daniel Barden, 09/25/05, male.
– Rachel Davino, 07/17/83, female.
– Olivia Engel, 07/18/06, female.
– Josephine Gay, 12/11/05, female.
– Ana M. Marquez-Greene, 04/04/06, female.
– Dylan Hockley, 03/8/06, male.
– Dawn Hocksprung, 06/28/65, female.
– Madeleine F. Hsu, 07/10/06, female.
– Catherine V. Hubbard, 06/08/06, female.
– Chase Kowalski, 10/31/05, male.
– Jesse Lewis, 06/30/06, male.
– James Mattioli , 03/22/06, male.
– Grace McDonnell, 12/04/05, female.
– Anne Marie Murphy, 07/25/60, female.
– Emilie Parker, 0 5/12/06, female.
– Jack Pinto, 0 5/06/06, male.
– Noah Pozner, 11/20/06, male.
– Caroline Previdi, 09/07/06, female.
– Jessica Rekos, 05/10/06, female.
– Avielle Richman, 10/17/06, female.
– Lauren Russeau, 06/1982, female.
– Mary Sherlach, 02/11/56, female.
– Victoria Soto, 11/04/85, female.
– Benjamin Wheeler, 09/12/06, male.
– Allison N. Wyatt, 07/03/06, female.
Maybe hike a mile in honor of each victim.Dec 15, 2012 at 3:07 pm #1935669
@ouzelLocale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
"Mental illness, guns, ……….."
The general attitude toward guns in this country is a mental illness.Dec 15, 2012 at 4:44 pm #1935696
W I S N E R !Participant
Three hundred million plus guns (and rising) in this country: I'd say gun advocates have clearly won this fight, perhaps with the minor exception of getting non-neutered military weaponry into the hands of our friends and neighbors.
With numbers like this, what's there to debate?
We could stop sales and production tomorrow and still have enough weaponry to last us a hundred years.
So maybe the gun advocates are right, maybe what our country actually needs is everyone carrying a gun to be safe now, from K-12 teachers to college professors to movie theater employees, to the guy in the shoe department at JC Penny and your server at Jamba Juice in the mall food court. Soccer moms and bank tellers and the random kid sitting at Starbucks sipping a Frappuccino in front of his laptop…let's all start carrying to save ourselves.
One gun for every single man, woman, and child in this nation is clearly not enough; maybe we can double or triple it by the time my kids are grown.Dec 15, 2012 at 5:14 pm #1935700
On the local news, there was someone who had a gun at Clackamas Town Center in Portland. He said he drew his gun on the shooter, but he saw people in back that could have been shot accidentally so he fled instead. He said the shooter saw him and soon after killed himself, so maybe that worked having other people with guns around. This guy was a security person by profession and was trying to become a policeman.
I could imagine a case where the other person wouldn't be so careful.
Or people could think there was a shooter when there wasn't and accidentally shoot people themseleves.
That doesn't seem like a good solution to have everyone have a gun.
I want people with guns to be very well trained – like police.Dec 15, 2012 at 6:04 pm #1935707
Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress. http://wh.gov/RN6UDec 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm #1935720
@bookLocale: Northern California
editDec 15, 2012 at 8:03 pm #1935723
Well, that didn't take long. Another sad catastrophe, another non-dialog quickly devolving into a gun control/gun availability 'debate'.
If only we could get past our pettiness and emotional responses and actually have an adult discussion on why these things might be happening. It goes far beyond guns. There is so much more involved in these shootings than guns – I'm not even convinced that gun control/gun availability is the major issue.
If we want to try figure it all out, we need to include health care and mental illness counseling/treatment availability, the prevalence of violent imagery in much of our media, the ever increasing hate speech/segmentation of society, and more.
To simplify such tragedies down to the sole issue of guns is lazy, inane and counterproductive, and IMO, is an injustice to those so callously murdered.Dec 15, 2012 at 8:19 pm #1935725
@bookLocale: Northern California
Douglas…"sigh"…there's always been crazy people, and murderers. Today, crazy people and murderers in the U.S. have access to military style weapons. You want to solve the larger problem of insanity and disaffected individuals; evil. Good luck. In Europe, there are just as many crazy people and disaffected individuals as in the U.S. Compare the mass murder numbers. Europe doesn't sell military assault weapons over the counter and at gun shows to the general public. We do.
The nra is the john birch society of our time.Dec 16, 2012 at 12:33 am #1935754
W I S N E R !Participant
It certainly does go far beyond guns Doug.
But to act as if guns have no place in this discussion when they are the tool that facilitates a single deranged person being able to inflict massive and otherwise disproportionate amounts of harm to others so quickly that no nobody has time to stop them…
To not be allowed to address and discuss the role that guns play in enabling this madness is an injustice to those so callously murdered.Dec 16, 2012 at 2:13 am #1935758
Why do you anti gun nuts have to derail every thread that touches upon guns.
Again, look at china. Knives, axes, etc are being used to kill children there to.Dec 16, 2012 at 4:25 am #1935759
@ikeLocale: Central Michigan
My 4 and 6 year olds got a lot of extra hugs yesterday. They thought it funny that their dad was so sentimental. My thoughts are with those affected by this unimaginable tragedy.Dec 16, 2012 at 6:16 am #1935767
Craig, I did not say, did not even imply, that guns have no place in the discussion. Of course the issue of gun control/gun availability has an important place in the discussion. Jason Alexander (yes, the actor) wrote a wonderful piece about the insanity of allowing pretty much anyone access to assault style weapons. It's a great, reasoned piece, I agree with it wholeheartedly.
But it's problematic, IMO, when the discussion never gets much beyond gun control/gun availability, which is most often the case, as this thread shows. There are deeper issues at play that need to be part of the discussion – just as much as guns, if not moreso.
An interesting tidbit from an article I read this morning: "There are countries with gun ownership rates nearly as high as our own and much less gun violence. … There are also countries with many fewer guns than the United States, but with even higher homicide by firearm rates. They are all countries poorer and less equal than the United States. Social democracy might actually be a better deterrent to gun violence than gun control."
So, yes, the gun control/gun availability debate needs to happen (of course, it would be more beneficial if it happened without the usual vitriol and hyperbole from both sides), but, again IMO, it shouldn't dominate the discussion about these tragedies. There is so much more at play.Dec 16, 2012 at 7:52 am #1935781
There was a teacher that was shot, she locked the door with the kids inside with her, the gunman tried to get in but the door was locked – that's a nice story that brings a tear to me.
"There are also countries with many fewer guns than the United States, but with even higher homicide by firearm rates. They are all countries poorer and less equal than the United States. Social democracy might actually be a better deterrent to gun violence than gun control."
That should also bring a reaction from Michael L : )
So, we need to raise taxes on the super-rich, increase programs to help people pull themselves up by their bootstraps like almost free college education,…
That maybe makes more sense than gun regulation, because if you make assault weapons illegal people can use handguns, limit number of rounds per magazine people will bring more magazines and practice changing,…
Maybe this super polarized political strategy to make everyone hate the other side works up people that are mentally unstable to begin with?Dec 16, 2012 at 11:51 am #1935818
@brucetboLocale: New England
Im no longer surprised when I a tragedy strikes and within hours people come out of the woodwork making ridiculous claims about gun ownership/availability.
First, for those unfamiliar with Federal Firearms Licensing… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
Note the cost. Also understand that obtaining said license becomes more difficult as the scope and capabilities of the firearms in question increase. Your local gun dealer is also legally obligated to call the FBI NICS center and complete a background check everytime a sale being made. Records must be maintained forever, of all incoming and outgoing firearms. When you consider the red tape that "over the counter" gun sale becomes a bit more complex than one might assume.
Second, "Military assault weapons" are the business of the military… period. "Military assault weapons" cannot be possessed or sold by civilians. Firearms designed to look like military weapons do not have the same capabilities as military weapons. Fact is there are numerous hunting rifles that possess as much or more stopping power than many military knock offs and high capacity mags are available for some.
If the anti gunners are right about anything its the gun show loophole. Im not going to defend gun dealers who sell to people without going through the proper legal channels.
Its frustrating to hear people call for tighter gun laws when most of what they think should be made illegal already is. Before feeding the flames of the anti govt types maybe we should look at current laws and try to figure out why they havent worked.Dec 16, 2012 at 12:09 pm #1935822
Note also that murder is already illegal.
Why would someone intent on murder care about another lesser law?Dec 16, 2012 at 1:48 pm #1935832
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
or to put it another way….
Be it for bear or human, it's your choice.
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