Aug 9, 2011 at 4:08 pm #1277835
These have been around for a while but I just discovered them. Good stuff :)Aug 9, 2011 at 4:09 pm #1767585
"Logic vs. the Tea Party" (video)Aug 10, 2011 at 4:03 pm #1767962
@elf773Locale: Vancouver, BC
Hahaha… thanks for posting. That was funny.
I had a co-worker (we were all on a bus), who was an ex-patriate Canadian living in the US presumably to avoid higher income tax, declare how the tea party had the right idea and that "Obama was a socialist" and "he's not even American" (meaning he's black).
I have no idea why they have to be so loud. Douche bag.
Maybe Plato was right about democracy after all.Aug 10, 2011 at 8:06 pm #1768058
"George Bush was NOT a Tea Partier." LOLAug 10, 2011 at 8:34 pm #1768072
John S.BPL Member
thought he preferred jack daniels.Aug 10, 2011 at 8:44 pm #1768075
Steve RobinsonBPL Member
Don't blame S&P for the downgrade and the Tea Partiers at least have basic grip on finance. From Agora Financial:
Let’s take a look. Here’s the reality about the debt-ceiling deal that S&P seems to be concerned with… perhaps we’re getting the math wrong too. In any case, we’ll enlist the help of Michael Pento of Euro Pacific Capital: “The debt ceiling agreement virtually assures that over the next decade the U.S. will add an additional $8 trillion in public debt, an increase of nearly 80% in 10 years.
“The back-end-loaded deal will cause the amount of deficit reduction to be just $21 billion in 2012 and $42 billion in 2013.”
If we play with those last two numbers a bit, as David Thomas of Equitas Capital Advisors did in a client letter last spring, we get a federal “budget” that looks something like this:
U.S. income: $2,170,000,000,000
Federal budget: $3,820,000,000,000
New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
April budget cuts that averted a partial government shutdown:
$38,500,000,000 (about 1% of the budget)
“It helps to think about these numbers,” Mr. Thomas wrote then, “in terms that we can relate to. Let’s remove eight zeros from these numbers and pretend this is the household budget for the fictitious Jones family.”
Total annual income for the Jones family: $21,700
Amount of money the Jones family spent: $38,200
Amount of new debt added to the credit card: $16,500
Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
Amount cut from the budget: $385
“In effect,” Mr. Thomas tried in vain to convey, “Congress, or in this example the Jones family, sat down at the kitchen table and agreed to cut $385 from its annual budget.
“What family would cut $385 of spending in order to solve $16,500 in deficit spending?”
We know our answer: The same family that would agree to cut $210 from its annual budget next year… and $420 the year after that.
At some point, the issuers of the Jones’ credit cards figure out the Jones family won’t be able to keep up minimum payments. When that point is reached, the Jones’ ability to continue running up their debts comes to an end..Aug 10, 2011 at 8:51 pm #1768079
The vids are funny, to be sure. But if more people acted like the Tea Partiers perhaps we could stop the decades long slide this country has been in and start to 'right the ship' again. For those willing to step away from the jingoism for a moment, it's rather obvious that the U.S. is a sad, sad reflection of its former self. We need a whole lot more Tea Party-acting folks, not less.Aug 10, 2011 at 9:00 pm #1768083
Just kidding :) I've never met a Tea Partier in person. Spotted first sign of tea party activity in my neighborhood today — 2 bumper stickers on a car parked in the Peet's/Fresh & Easy parking lot.Aug 10, 2011 at 9:03 pm #1768085
Gosh, there's all kinds of partiers on BPL! I've partied with a few of 'em……
"I've never met a Tea Partier in person."
That you know of …… Contrary to popular belief, they don't all wear signs…….Aug 10, 2011 at 9:27 pm #1768093
So…there are low profile tea partiers. Tea Party Lite?
I hope to leave on a 45+ day trip in 2 weeks or so. Hardly started preps. And I am procrastinating on BPL. I came here to look at some trip reports and notes and get sucked into misc posts. Ever happen to anyone else?Aug 10, 2011 at 9:29 pm #1768094
"So…there are low profile tea partier. Tea Party Lite?"
No no, Tea Party Minimal. They all wear Merrell Tough Gloves……Aug 10, 2011 at 9:46 pm #1768105
Dean F.BPL Member
@acrosomeLocale: Back in the Front Range
People like Michele Bachmann simultaneously leave me rolling with laughter and scare the living hell out of me. But I do agree with the Tea Party people that the national debt is a travesty. Some of the other things that various Tea Partiers espouse are kinda amusing, but mostly it's the fundamentalist christian element and their screwed up social policy that turns me off. To my very core I'm opposed to an American theocracy.Aug 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm #1768113
I very much hope that all tea partiers do not subscribe to the total package!Aug 10, 2011 at 10:05 pm #1768117
"To my very core I'm opposed to an American theocracy."
Amen to that, brother! But then again, as an atheist, I'm opposed to any theocracy!Aug 10, 2011 at 10:22 pm #1768121
Steve RobinsonBPL Member
"tea party lite", I like that!
Not TP, I'm agnostic.
Just giving credit them credit for bringing up (albeit in a rather shrill way) the slow train wreck of the US financial situation.
Can't support many other issues that are associated with them. One, for example, is the manic insistence that we 'rid the country of all the illegals'. If you could give the their wish and snap you fingers Bewitched style and have it be done, you'd see a downward economic spiral that would make post-Soviet Russia look like, well a tea party.
So, some good, some ….Aug 10, 2011 at 10:36 pm #1768124
@hknewmanLocale: Western US
Sucked into misc posts
Yes, Chaff and Gear always seem ripe for procrastination, so don't feel alone.
In terms of the Tea Party, some interesting ideas (some too far, some not far enough) but it will be interesting to see how they deal with the Big 3 (defense, Medicare, and Medicaid). Does the US buy new weapons (with layers of contractors) on the installment program or pay up front (more taxes)? Do without? Slow procurement? May set up some fights within Republican ranks.
The 800 lb gorilla no one wants to talk about: Future medical spending on an increasingly unhealthy older American public is a far bigger budgetary headache, if what I'm reading is correct. Haven't seen much of Rep Ryan since his proposal but agree we need to really take a look at Medicare.
Add about theocracy: In terms of relying on a higher power for infrastructure and similar items, think all the prayers and rain dances haven't helped Texas. Read where Big Spring TX is recycling their own urine for drinking, but not sure if the residents really like that technological solution. Sometimes regulation has a place and that water problem had to be years in making. "Tragedy of the Commons"Aug 10, 2011 at 10:38 pm #1768125
I think the GOP will use them for what they are worth and dump them in a big hurry as 2012 approaches. How is the tea party related to the "birthers"? Same players?Aug 11, 2011 at 8:42 am #1768195
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I think the Tea Party has been captured by the right wingers
David Koch funds at least one of the big Tea Party organizations
Their big issues are no tax increases and no cuts in miltary expenses
"tax increases" means preserving loopholes so the most wealthy people and biggest corporations pay nothing or less than their fair share. Like Warren Buffet says, it's not fair that he pays half as much in taxes as his secretary, as a percentage of income.
"miltary expenses" means welfare for big government contractors. I think most of our miltary actions actually make us less safe.
Most people that call themselves Tea Partiers don't want medicare to be cut, but the "Tea Party" people in congress have tried their hardest to do thisAug 11, 2011 at 9:51 am #1768217
Ben CBPL Member
Whenever I look at those numbers, I become convinced we can't dig ourselves out with mostly spending cuts. Taking us back to the tax structure of the Clinton years would have such a bigger effect than any cuts we have the will to do. I think if you're interested in a balanced budget more than just smaller government, the answer is pretty clear. But it seems you can't say this and run for office.
The Chart That Should Accompany All Discussions of the Debt Ceiling
You can be against deficits. You can be for preserving tax cuts. You cannot be for both — logically, that is.Aug 11, 2011 at 2:18 pm #1768301
5650 Chestnut View LaneSpectator
Taxing the rich is not going to fix the problem:
"in tax year 2009, the combined gross income of all Americans earning $500,000 per year or more was about $1.03 trillion ($1,029,256,075,000.00) of which these Americans paid $256.7 billion ($256,699,499,000.00) in federal income taxes.
That left this group of Americans about $773 billion ($772,556,576,000.00) in income that the federal government had not taken away in income taxes.
Also during tax year 2009, according to the Bureau of the Public Debt, the national debt increased by $1.61 trillion ($1,611,544,812,899.90).
If the federal government had increased the income-tax rate on Americans earning more than $500,000 to 100 percent in 2009–and seized the remaining $773 billion in income it had not initially taken away from these Americans–that would have closed the federal deficit for the year to $839 billion ($838,988,236,899.90)."
Raising taxes on people just forces them to hide the money and find loopholes. That's where the Rockefeller and Ford foundations came from – the rich avoiding taxes. It's not a solution. These politicians have to stop spending other peoples money on non-sense. Why do we supplement corn? Why do we supplement tobacco? Why do we supplement Cowboy poetry festivals?
Take a look at Greece and tell me we aren't headed there. These are the reasons the Tea Party came together.Aug 11, 2011 at 3:16 pm #1768322
Richard LyonBPL Member
@richardglyonLocale: Bridger Mountains
@ Hartley – "I think the GOP will use them for what they are worth and dump them in a big hurry as 2012 approaches."
I wish that I agreed with you, I really do. I do agree with Dean on Michelle Bachman ("People like Michele Bachmann simultaneously leave me rolling with laughter and scare the living hell out of me.") But I live in Texas, where Rick Perry has been governor since 2000 and he only scares the living hell out of me, with no accompanying laughter. He's the prototypical Tea Partier without Bachman's brains, and he's got a great chance of being our next President. The Tea Party taking over the GOP, not vice versa. I'm not laughing at all.
RichardAug 11, 2011 at 3:18 pm #1768323
Tom KirchnerBPL Member
@ouzelLocale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
"To my very core I'm opposed to an American theocracy."
We've already got one, Cher Acrosome. The Almighty Dollar is God and the theocrats reign from their temples on Wall Street.Aug 11, 2011 at 3:19 pm #1768324
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
"He's the prototypical Tea Partier without Bachman's brains"
For a second there I thought you were discussing Sarah Palin.
I think the IQ Test was the only test that she ever scored 100 on.
–B.G.–Aug 11, 2011 at 3:26 pm #1768326
Tom KirchnerBPL Member
@ouzelLocale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
"The Tea Party taking over the GOP, not vice versa. I'm not laughing at all."
That's gotta be every Democrat's wet dream.Aug 11, 2011 at 3:27 pm #1768328
David GoodyearBPL Member
It is funny to see the same liberal arguments and all of the class warfare rhetoric repeated at nauseum.
"pay their fair share" – which is what? how much money do you want to confiscate from the job creators? – yes. most people and corporations are job creators and they exist to make money – yes money is not a bad thing. Already the top 10% pay 90 % of the taxes. – do you need it to be 98%. 51% of the population pay no net income tax. Is it wrong to want to work hard and enjoy the fruits of your labors, or should we let the gov't decide how much cheese we get. What would that do for motivation? Ok, here is a test. If you believe that gov't is the answer to all problems and that we need to redistribute all of the wealth and close all of the legal tax exemptions (loopholes for the liberal minds) – then did you take any deductions on last year's taxes? Did you use the home mortgage loophole, the child deduction loophole, the charity loophole or did you put your money where your mouth is and just sign it and give the gov't the maximum…..I didn’t think so…so why should anyone else. As Margaret Thatcher said " the problem with socialism is that at some point you run out of other people’s money"
"the gov't can create jobs through spending" What, the govt' does not create jobs, because it takes someone’s money to give to someone else and does not produce a product. What happened to all of the last 3 stimulus bills? Where did all of the money go? Where are all of the jobs? If you dig deep – you will find that a lot of this money was used as pay-offs for gov't cronies. This mindset made the great depression last longer than it should have.
"Let's go back to the tax rates of the Clinton years" you forgot to mention that the tech boom and bubble helped increase revenues to the state and that the balanced budget did more to stabilize the economy. Clinton actually worked with congress instead of blaming them. I think that the Carter years have more in common to what is happening today- massive spending, wild out of control printing of monies and a president with no clue. Should I mention that when Regan and Bush cut taxes the revenues to the gov’t increased…hmm
"I think the Tea Party has been captured by the right wingers David Koch funds at least one of the big Tea Party organizations" These are the most hilarious statements. The liberal media has tried very hard to put a negative face on the tea party. Their main problem has been that there is no central leader. This is a grass roots organization that believes in decreasing the size of government, cutting gov't spending and reinstating the constitution. They are disliked by the big spenders in both parties. Please read more than the Huffington post – the truth will set you free!
The only way to change the course that we are on is to elect conservative people. People who have balanced a checkbook and run a business or a family. People who know that the best gov't is one that stays out of the way and thus bringing back American exeptionalism. (and yes I have heard the "robber Barron" argument and believe me there is plenty of gov't regulation )
I know this will not be popular with the so called "educated" folk and members of the ruling class, but this is chaff
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