Topic

4 Season Ultra Light Extreme Weather Shelter System

This topic has 145 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 8 months ago by Franco Darioli.

Viewing 21 posts - 126 through 146 (of 146 total)

← 1 2 3 4 5 6

Author

Posts
Aug 15, 2017 at 6:47 pm #3485202

Edward John M
BPL Member

@moondog55

Not all hybrids pitch inner first

Exterior poles are one of the reasons I am still using my old FairyDown Plateau,

The other is that an exterior poles hybrid allows the use of a third layer of fabric to make a triple skin tent. the third skin keeps heat in when the wind isn’t blowing but its main use is to keep the sun off the tent to increase the tents life

The downside for may people is the extra weight, my Plateau weighs 5.6 kilos all up [ and not including extra snow pegs] with only 340 grams of that being the third skin and despite being labelled a 3 person tent and being able to squeeze that many in it is only comfortable for two. It is however among the few tents I would call almost bomb-proof

Aug 15, 2017 at 9:26 pm #3485238

Roger Caffin
BPL Member

@rcaffin
Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

t20 – OK for moderate weather.
Only 2 poles, so a bit weak against side-winds. Low back end (80 cm) so you can’t sit back there. Pity. Just a little more headroom needed imho.

t20 xt OK for moderate weather.
Still only 2 poles for the sleeping length, and the same low backend. Very long footprint – harder to find a site or more snow stomping required.

In both cases, the idea of pitching the inner only is mainly for the marketing lols (imho). I guess it would keep the mosquitoes out – until you opened the door for cooking or egress.

They are reasonable tents by a reasonable company (still run by the original founder!), and well suited to a lot of UK conditions. They get wet and windy in the UK, but not normally ‘extreme’. (OK, it did snow on us up on the Pennine Way once … entertaining stuff.)
The g20 mtn (2.75 kg) might be a better tent for harsh conditions.
The t25 arctic is a good tent for extreme conditions, but somewhat more than double the weight of my 4-pole winter tent.

My 2c, as usual.

Cheers

Aug 16, 2017 at 7:43 am #3485301

Michael F
BPL Member

@gearu

I really like the Hilleberg Nammatj too, but it is also a 2 pole design, so it may not be as strong as they say when they say it is for the harshest conditions. So it seems like I’m looking for 3 or 4 pole tunnel tent.

I like the g20 mtn tent a lot, but it is inner pitch first ….

<div class=”field-label”>Pitching Overview:</div>

<div class=”field-items”>
<div class=”field-item even”>

The g20 mtn is pitched inner-first. Lightwave is an ardent supporter of this pitching method for the following reasons:
1. It gives greater structural integrity. Because the poles run through sleeves on the inner canopy, they directly tension and support the walls and built-in groundsheet of the inner tent and give it taut and stable three-dimensional shape. In the outer-pitch system, where the poles pass through sleeves on the flysheet and there is no built-in groundsheet, the walls must be “tied” together at ground level by webbing straps and the overall structural rigidity is not as good.
2. It allows the flysheet to be tensioned better and more easily. Without external pole sleeves, inner-pitch tents have a more streamlined, “slippery” profile and thus a greater ability to withstand high winds.
3. It makes for a lighter tent and a simpler construction, since it does not require the connecting mechanisms needed to secure the inner tent to the flysheet.

</div>
</div>

Aug 16, 2017 at 8:26 am #3485315

Matt Dirksen
BPL Member

@namelessway
Locale: Mid Atlantic

“I really like the Hilleberg Nammatj too, but it is also a 2 pole design, ”

Mark, how about the Nammatj 2GT?

If it’s just to heavy, perhaps the Nallo 2GT, as a lighter manifestation of the Nammatj. While the Nammatj is clearly a strong tent, the Nallo GT tents seem to balance a lot of good four season features in a fairly lighweight package.

I’d also assume there are probably a number of BPL’ers out there who have direct experience with both the Nammatj GT and Nallo GT.

Aug 16, 2017 at 9:38 am #3485348

Gunnar H
BPL Member

@qy

The Nammatj or the Nammatj GT have the same potential problem – a relatively long section between two poles. Nammatj GT is just longer. However, Nammatj has a good reputation as winter tent and it has been used in Antarctica by scientists and others again and again for decades, so I assume they mitigated the potential problem satisfactory when designing it. The main problem I hear about it is that it can be a bit short if you are long.

If you still want a true 3-pole design from Hilleberg, look at Kaitum or the supersized and superheavy Keron. I think Keron is the oldest Hilleberg model still in production.

Aug 16, 2017 at 11:49 am #3485398
Michael F
BPL Member

@gearu
I have gone ahead and ordered the Nammatj 2 cause I just like it so much!

But We arent done yet! I’m going to grab a second tent, so I will have both a Geo and a tunnel at my disposal for different destinations

New criteria!

Needs:
Sleeps 2 people, if even a little tight (don’t mind, I mostly camp with girls :P)
Rated for 4-5 season use
Not insanely heavy (i.e. nothing 8.9 lb’s or something like that)
Versatile
Integrally pitched / Multi-Pitch

I have decided that a geodesic or semi geodesic design would work best for me. Here are my reasons:

1. More versatility for various staking conditions
2. Can be repositioned/moved/repitched more easily than other designs to adapt to weather/wind direction changes
3. (Typically) smaller footprints for added versatility in various areas
4. Can withstand snow loading better than some other designs, and for longer durations in the event going out to shovel would be uncomfortable or even potentially treacherous.

I have selected this tent as my first candidate and will be updating this thread with further considerations as I locate them.

Vaude’s Power Sphaireo 2p
https://www.vaude.com/en-GB/Products/Tents/2-Person/Power-Sphaerio-2P?number=122982270

Overview:
Lightweight expedition tent with reinforced dome design for fast ascents
- 5th season (for extreme conditions )
- extremely high wind stability and quick/easy to pitch
- eco-friendly manufacturingDefy the wind: our lightweight 5th season tent in a reinforced dome construction for year-round use at high elevations or for expeditions. Patented Powerframe technology allows the tent to be pitched fast, even in strong wind and rain – put the poles into the pole pockets and then clip the tent on – the inner tent stays dry. The Power Frame hooks can also be attached when you’re wearing gloves. The special material blend with low stretch ripstop defies extreme weather fluctuations. The outer tent is pulled down low to project from snow and sand. The distance to the ground can be adjusted and functions as a ventilation option. The steep angle of the poles create comfortable spaciousness. To protect the environment, the flysheet was made in accordance with the strict bluesign® standard, resource-efficient and environmentally friendly manufacturing.Number of people: 2 P.
  Pack Size: 55 x 16 cm
  Tent footprint: 4,1 m²
  Inner tent footprint: 2,6 m²
  Linkage: NSL 10,25 mm
  Total Weight: 2600,00 g
  
  Flysheet: 88% Polyamide, 12% Polyester; 30/40 D Ripstop both sides Silicone coated 3.000 mm; Inner tent: 100% Polyamide; 40 D Ripstop; Floor: 100% Polyamide; 40 D Ripstop Thermoplastic Polyurethane laminated 10.000 mm.
  
  Suitable for:
- Ski Mountaineering<span class=”listing-seperator”>,</span>
- Alpine TourFeatures:
- 1 entrance
- 1 vestibule
- comfortable entrance area
- geodesic construction with the Powerframe technology for better stability and fast set up
- adjustable ground ventilation at sides
- extra large, reinforced tension loops at sides
- laminated floor resistant against formic acid
- very high UV resistance
Aug 16, 2017 at 2:56 pm #3485452

Gunnar H
BPL Member

@qy

Since you ordered it it might be interesting to know that it is named after the mountain in the middle of the Rapa valley that you see down to the right in this picture. It is made of particularly hard rock that stood up against the glacier that once took away everything else in the valley, a good name choice for a 4-season tent.

In their advertising nowadays Hilleberg often claim more general explanations to the names, but most of the older tents are really named after Scandinavian mountains. In this case they refer to the meaning of the name of the mountain instead.

Btw, Hilleberg have some 4-season domes as well you can check on their website. It was the 4-season tunnel tents that made their reputation, but my brother have an older version of Saitaris from 1994 I think, and it is still bomber proof (and about 2 pounds lighter than the current version).

Aug 16, 2017 at 3:35 pm #3485461

Michael F
BPL Member

@gearu

To all contributors: Don’t post here! New thread is here: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/assessing-all-of-my-ul-gear-needs-in-one-thread/
it is better organized and handles all of my gear discussion not just shelters

Mods: Could you please close both of the UL 4 season shelter threads, as they are too disorganized for me and I’d like to discuss everything in one much more organized thread.

Thank you.

Aug 17, 2017 at 4:13 am #3485538

Roger Caffin
BPL Member

@rcaffin
Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

Mod Note:
No, we do not close a thread to which many are contributing in a useful manner. Threads are not ‘owned’ that way.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
BPL

Aug 18, 2017 at 10:23 am #3485840

Michael F
BPL Member

@gearu

Well I won’t be present here, so if anyone wishes to contribute so helpfully theyd be better suited posted in my latest thread if they wish me to see it. I have a LOT to discuss and I can’t do it jumping between several threads, of which were conceived based upon flawed ideas about shelter designs(my fault for making so many, and having such ideas, but my latest thread is an attempt to seriously discuss these matters more efficiently )

thanks.

Aug 18, 2017 at 6:02 pm #3485899

Ken Thompson
BPL Member

@here
Locale: Right there

You could click subscribe at the top of the thread and be notified of any subsequent posts Michael. There is no army of moderators.

Aug 19, 2017 at 10:12 pm #3486069

Edward John M
BPL Member

@moondog55

I’ve been contributing to this thread because in a couple of years I’ll need a solo tent myself and some of the issues raised have been pertinent to my own research

I have several winter tents but all of them are a little heavier than I would prefer for a solo tent.

So far the Hilleberg Akto ticks a few more boxes than some others

Has anybody ever modified an Akto to make it stronger? Replacing the wand with 12mm alloy pre-curved sections or the fibreglass with CF for instance

Aug 19, 2017 at 11:49 pm #3486082

Franco Darioli
Spectator

@franco
Locale: Gauche, CU.

I don’t remember ever seen one photo of an Akto with a broken strut but there are several that have the tent looking like this :

probably not a big deal for most but could be for you given your height.

On the other hand , (highly biased opinion) I do think that the inverted V struts plus the mid strut and plus the X poles on the TT Scarp 1 can hold more snow .

The second photo from Christopher Ward commenting that it performed like a 4 season champ.

With the external poles the Scarp is about 150g heavier than the Akto.

Aug 20, 2017 at 12:28 am #3486085

Edward John M
BPL Member

@moondog55

If I bought a Scarp I’d feel compelled to make a second fly and use it as a triple skin tent tho Franco; thereby adding another 400 grams

Edit

For the places I am thinking of going I believe wind is a much greater issue that snowfall but better to be able to cope with both.

I’d like to get my base weight to around 18 kilos and so far my sleeping system looks to be coming in at 5 kilos plus but I’m not going to skimp on that; especially the mattresses

Aug 20, 2017 at 12:49 am #3486090

Roger Caffin
BPL Member

@rcaffin
Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

Hi Ed

Genuine curiosity: why?
Given that the outer fly would not be attached to the poles and would therefore not add a lot of wind-stability (imh0).

Cheers

Aug 20, 2017 at 1:21 am #3486093

Edward John M
BPL Member

@moondog55

Probably because it worked so well on my old Fairydown Plateau and the extra skin made that warmer by a big margin.

The Fairydown pole system tho was and is strong enough to allow me to tie the extra layer down tight to the frame end points as well as to the ground

Aug 20, 2017 at 2:44 am #3486094

Franco Darioli
Spectator

@franco
Locale: Gauche, CU.

But why would you do that with the Scarp and not the Akto ?

Aug 20, 2017 at 3:21 am #3486096

Gunnar H
BPL Member

@qy

Akto is designed to allow för double 9mm poles if you want to strehgthen it further. Hilleberg has that possibility fot all(?) red and black label tents.

Aug 20, 2017 at 4:32 am #3486099

Edward John M
BPL Member

@moondog55

Well the Scarp has those extra poles Franco and the Akto doesn’t

Aug 20, 2017 at 8:45 am #3486113

Matt Dirksen
BPL Member

@namelessway
Locale: Mid Atlantic

“I don’t remember ever seen one photo of an Akto with a broken strut but there are several that have the tent looking like this”

Good Pics!

Even with a doubled up pole, the Atko’s weak link is still the unsupported canopy over the head and the foot region. I’d imagine it would take some serious stakes at the front and rear of the tent, to keep it from being summarily impacted by snow (like in Franco’s pic).

As far as I can tell, the Scarp’s extra poles clearly assist with snow loading. Adding a fly over these exposed poles would be an unnecessary redundancy (although the fly might add a wee bit of protection for the poles & clips from wind/snow exposure).

Franco: has there been any discussion about 4 seasonifying the Bowfin design? (by replacing the struts with small hoops over the head & foot region, but a lighter higher up on the frame?). That, plus some good tieouts on the sides, and that it seem like a rock solid design. It seems to me that having the continuous ridge pole over the long axis will shed snow more confidently than a pole across the short axis. The 4 season Bowfin could be a MUCH lighter version of this, arguably one of the strongest 1p shelters ever made (imho).

Matt

Aug 20, 2017 at 4:42 pm #3486191

Franco Darioli
Spectator

@franco
Locale: Gauche, CU.

4 season Bowfin.
When the design started, I think I mentioned the 4 season potential to Henry but can’t remember how that went.
This reminds me of another design that surfaced many years ago, just after the Scarp I think, that had some of those features but was then put into the “later” basket.
Anyway he will be busy, end of season, designing some other stuff first then who knows…
Author

Posts