4 Season Ultra Light Extreme Weather Shelter System

“insulated tents – so many square metres of insulation would be needed.” 

The MLD solomid is a fairly small and space efficient tent. The cuben version I have weighs 12.5 oz or so. 6mm 1.2lb density foam plus 1.07 oz/yd2 fabric and mylar space blankets would push the weight to around the 4lb range.  Not egregious to me–the bulk would be more of an issue, but not a huge deal if you’re using a small pulk.

“My gut feeling is that you could wrap that material around yourself several times for far better results. It’s an area thing.” 

Of course that’s true, but on a long cold evening and night when it’s -5* F or so, wouldn’t it be nice to light a couple candles, take off your bulky down jacket and mittens and just lounge without being freezing cold? Cause I’ve been out in those temps, and while I have a pretty good cold tolerance, I have to keep my at least my liner gloves on most of the time unless I’m cooking or in the quilt.

Yes, it’s more a kind of luxury thing, but since I most enjoy and most often winter backpack, the weight and volume is an acceptable trade off, especially if I can take it off when not needed or wanted. That’s the true beauty of such a system is the adaptability.  And with cuben and membrane silpolyPU4000, I can use a lot of tape or glue to bond, and only do light sewing to reinforce at crucial areas (yes, I know, do not sew directly on tape or glue–I would do so right next to same).

OK then Justin is weight and space are no problem then go for something like a Eureka Timberline, with an extra set of poles because of the extra weight perhaps? The tents I have insulated have all been dinosaurs and cotton wall tents with extra large synthetic fly sheets. I sewed rings into the corners and along the seams . I had some UL polyester fleece and some leftover Thinsulate from a double sleeping bag project that didn’t work out, some perforated aluminised building foil. RFL means Reflective Foil Laminate Like a  Space blanket

I sandwiched the Thinsulate between the fleece and the RFL and sewed plastic hooks in places to match the rings and then just hung the “blanket” from the rings. I did something similar for the ends but just with scraps and old woollen blankets

It worked, it actually worked very well and if it had been a hot tent then very little fuel would have been needed but the space the insulation needed to work well turned a 4 man tent  [ 10 * 8 feet] into a 2 man tent, loosing about 100mm in height and 150 to 200mm in width. It would have been less if I had used small rings and hooks but I was worried about them handling the blanket weight if I used small glove hooks so I used big duffle bag snaps and rings. The big bonus was the light a single UCO candle lantern was enough to do almost everything except read

Base camp for a winter skiing trip, took 3 days hauling stuff in I had so much stuff but I was there for 70+ days so worth it, I should note here that the tent was destroyed by the end of the time, a complete write-off. A tent that big needed a frame somewhat stronger than 32mm architectural aluminium tubing, 2018 I’m using 55mm Awing tube

Now do this with APEX and UL fabrics in a Timberline 4 and you have a winter palace for 1;  for 2 people I’d be using a Timberline 6

“The i-tent is little more than a pop-up. Oh, big on marketing, but it is still a pop-up.”

Awe c’mon Roger. While I know you have a bias (a highly educated one) toward tunnels, you should at least give the I-tent a little more respect than that? :)

It is a 40 year old design now, is highly imitated, and numerous Bibler tents (especially the “floppy” Eldorado) still somehow manage to end up toward the top of reviewers lists time and time again.

The reason why I”d humbly disagree with the term “floppy” is due to two significant reasons:

1) The interior pole assembly essentially creates a structural  “endoskeleton”. Sure the poles require a certain length to give it its dimentions, the interior poles allow the whole system to work together, to uniformly distribute forces from any direction. Any similar “pop up” tent with the poles inserted from the outside (clip or sleeve) will be dealing with a lot more deflection from the start, since the poles will have room to shift from side to side.
2) The Toddtex fabric itself is significantly more dense than silnylon. While this makes packing it up a little harder, Toddtex does not change in elasticity when it’s wet, and it’s density causes it to shed wind with “less” deformation than silnylon (imho). While I completely understand that it’s essential to have a certain amount of deformation in a tent, there are limitations that any tent (and its inhabitants) should tolerate. Because of this, Bibler’s are very quiet, even in 100km winds.

And admidtally, I’m biased. I got my Eldorado back in mid/late 90’s, and I had both used & sold them (plus hundreds of other tent designs) for the ten years up to that point. The setup of a Bibler is tough, and it takes getting used to. But Bibler’s are one of a select handful of tent designs which are  considered “drum tight” before any stake is placed in the ground.

Matt

“I don’t think we have ever had the energy to ‘lounge around’. Different folks, different strokes.”

Definitely know the feeling, had many days/nights on the CT last summer where we experienced this because we’d try to get up fairly early, and hiked a good amount, became exhausted, and often after dinner, would pass out.

But neither month long, nor summer trips are my norm–weekend ones in the late fall, winter, and early, early spring are. Short days combined with me being a night owl and not a morning person, and at least a 2 hr drive, usually leads to a late start and early end, which leaves me with plenty of energy and to paraphrase Mitch Hedberg–a lot of free time. For me, it’s just about being out in nature, with some relative solitude, the most, and less about ego things like, “man, I hiked 40 miles today, yeah, I’m an awesome beast!” that it seems younger males are most prone to.

“Am I falling for more marketing hype?”

Join the club, my friend!

On a more serious note, I’d probably hold off on pulling the trigger on the Lightwave tents, and see if there are any solid reviews out there from respectable sources.

Regarding the “geo-hybrid” design, what are the attributes of the G20 that you like in particular?

(Fwiw, that three pole design has been around a looong while, starting with the North Face VE-23 & Bullfrog designs in the mid/late 70’s).

Check UK forum activity, such as this.

Yes, I AM biased – but I have owned, made and slept in many tents.

The Bibler brand – this is part of something we see all the time. One or two guys start a company with some pretty good hard-line products. They sell. Then they get bigger, while still keeping their focus. The brand becomes respected for its quality. Then, sadly, they get bought out by a marketing company, or they die, or whatever. After that the focus is on exploiting the original reputation for profit margin and market share, not on the original concepts. There are so many big companies which have been down this path, with the same sad results. Bottom line: you can’t rely on the rep from 40 years ago: it’s not the same company any more. I’ll avoid potential legal problems by not giving names.

The i-tent – it has three major design defects:
* The long poles are weak and bendy
* The fabric span at the sides is huge and floppy
* The door opens over the groundsheet, any rain gets your gear wet.
You simply cannot get away from these problems.

Now, if you are only dealing with wind from one direction – the long axis, and no rain, it’s not so bad: you can have internal guys to strengthen the poles. But if the wind shifts – which happens so often in the mountains, then you have a problem. If the weather warms a bit and you get heavy rain … problems.

Inner-first pitch – a pure marketing scam imho. It’s a cheap design sold to novices. Definitely fine weather only.

The big money in the American scene is for 3-season walkers under mild conditions. So that is where every large USA company focuses: the big score, not the little niches. And of course the Walmart sales are huge. For the rest of the world, where they don’t have those conditions, gear has to be a bit different. The idea of using a light 8’x6′ silnylon tarp almost anywhere else in the world would be … amusing. But this does NOT mean that the SUL tarp is a silly idea in the Sierra summers: it can be entirely suited to those conditions. Go for it then.

But winter time, in the mountains, possibly above the tree line, often in the snow – a very different story. As others have noted in this thread, safety and survival then become the highest priority, not being SUL. Body bags give us bad PR, which gives us other problems.

The geo/tunnel designs – yeah, they have been around for a long time too. They are far more robust (5 or 6 poles) – but also heavier. Good for a party of four though, and good for ‘expeditions’. Some of them have rather long footprints though.

Yeah, I am biased, and vocal. WE know it. Stay safe guys.
Cheers