MB Thermawrap vs Ex-light/UL Down inner vs Alpine Light

[Scott Truong]

I know the debate of down vs synthetic has been discussed ad nauseum. My apologies, I'll admit to being lazy.

Objective:

warmth while in camp/stationary, extend range of quilt, use under Event shell for snowboarding (this one will likely not work too well).

I currently have a Katabatic Quilt w/2oz overfill (11 oz… 25*F.. 20* maybe). I'd like to get down to 15* if caught in cold snap. Coastal mountains/wet type cold.

I usually bring my Event rain/shell and just bought a Montane litespeed. I'm undecided about bringing both jackets on a regular basis.

– Great deal on the MB Alpine light right now. $118.

– I'm leaning towards the Thermawrap as a margin of saftey. My quilt is down. I mainly use merino wool, so figure if things get wet, I should be uncomfortable but OK in a worse case situation.

– I like the weight and feeling of down. I hate clammy.

Questions:

– Does synthetic really loose effectiveness with too much compression/packing? Like by a wide margin? I have a small pack.

– Will the Alpine light be too bulky/warm in 40* weather?

– Given that I have an Event shell and have faith in it, is "margin of safety" from water a non-issue?

Any other suggestions (patagonia R1???).

Thanks in advance.

[Stephan Doyle]

How much warmth are you looking for?

The Alpine Light is going to be significantly warmer than your other options.

Synthetic vs Down is of hot debate.

Synthetics, such as the Thermawrap, begin to lose effectiveness too quickly for my taste. They're heavier and don't pack as well even at the beginning of their product cycle, and also start slowly seeping warmth. A down jacket will maintain its quality for a substantially longer time.

Outside of down, softshells and fleece for me. A bit heavier, but better performance when active.

[Mike W]

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[Scott Truong]

hmmm… looks like down it is. Thanks for the input concerning synthetic performance. I'd want something whose intended purpose didn't deteriorate, considering I travel a lot with work and will be packing the jacket often.

Hey Mike, love the burn. I was surprised at how much stuff I could get into it. I think it's wetter where you are, so your opinion is most helpful.

And in my short time UL backpacking, I've found trash compactor bags extremely useful in keeping things dry while away on a hike/fishing.

I had thought about a fleece like the R1 considering it's warmth and high breathability. I already have a 260g merino sweater and do really like wool. Even when sweating in it, it feels comfortable, unlike nylon/synthetics, and dries reasonably quickly.

I imagine fleece, like wool, would be comfortable to sleep in, even if I sweat a little.

Do you folks drape or sleep in your insulation? How comfortable is it?

It's like the litespeed. I'm not saying it's a mistake, but I'm not sure if I really needed a windshirt, considering I'm bringing a rain jacket. My Event breathes very well and isn't that much hotter.

I guess there is only one way to find out. I surmised that it would be unlikely for me to hike in a puffy and just have to decide if I'll be out, at this point, in temperatures low enough to need an insulating jacket.

I'm going to Newfoundland later this month with average lows of 40* (maritime weather) and maybe Arizona/Utah late fall.

I've read a lot about puffy insulation, like wind jackets, just not sure if I could get by fine with what I have for now.

[James holden]

IMO yr better off with something climbers call a belay jacket where you can put it over the shell when u stop

the problem with putting it under the shell is that you need to take off the shell every time, out on the insul layer and then put the shell back on … yr losing heat

climbers use a puffy that they put on over everything else when they stop … you remove no additional layers

course we have harnesses too … so it helps not to have to take those off and and on all the time …

any cheap oversized puffy will work for this

[Jim MacDiarmid]

Have a look at this chart by Richard Nisley. There's a lot of science and it's helpful to read all the follow-up posts, but at a glance it gives you an idea of how some of the jackets you mentioned stack up warmth-wise.

This other chart by Richard shows what your clo level should be to be comfortable at different temps and activities. Combine the two charts right and you can figure out what you need. As with the first chart, there's a lot of background info and definition of terms if you read all the follow ups.

I'm still trying to understand most of this stuff myself, but I figure it can't hurt to repost these links every few months.

[Mike W]

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[Scott Truong]

That the Burn and Dyeema (sic) is as tough as advertised.

2 weeks, that's also good to know. Steelhead or the 100 year record salmon run? And the litespeed, if nothing else, looks pretty slick and the burnt orange will be good visiblility, so I don't get smoked riding my bike round town.

Thanks for all the input from everyone, it's definitely helped me make my decision.

OK so it's super cumbersome and a sauna sleeping in a puffy.. what I was afraid of.

Now it's between the Ex-light, or Down Inner… or the Alpine Light (at a considerable cost savings $118 @ campsaver vs 150+). Just wondering if it will be too warm for 40* temps if I'm just milling about and tinkering.

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