No More pup tents please

""Pup tent: A small triangular tent, especially one with a pole at either end and room for one or two people."

This is my working definition. An A-frame tent is called an A-frame tent where I come from."

In my book, a pup tent is an A frame. How many postings and paragraphs written for lack of a photo?

Definitions of pup tent on the Web:

-A wedge-shaped tent; usually without a floor or windows
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

-Pup Tent is an album by Luna.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pup_Tent

-A shelter tent
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pup_tent

OK Lynn, you don't like the tent. Whatever it is.

You complain that this website doesn't review enough tents – then you post a long critique of a tent without telling us what brand it is. Not very helpful.

Send it back and get a bigger tent. Problem solved.

Guess, I am not the only one frustrated by Lynn's awfully long-winded posts. A simple posting of a photo — or at least the brand and model — would have gotten everyone on the same starting point instantly. Then we can read and actually make some sense of Lynn's critique.

In my book, putting out a critique but leaving out the name is like writing an anonymous biitch note. Cowardly. And I much prefer an armchair critic to a coward.

Ben, while your point is duly noted, may I play devil's advocate for the sake of, um, playing devils advocate? :)

Perhaps Lynn omitted the name and company out of respect? Perhaps she was venting her frustration out on the state of the market regarding UL shelters, and this particular happened to be the proverbial straw? I do understand biitching out a particular item when it is actually a much broader frustration that is at the core. I've wanted to do the same in the past. A scapegoat?

I dunno, but like I said, this is just me offering discussion.

Whatever this unknown (although we can guess) tent is, it's obvious that Lynn is not comfortable with it. That's fine, Lynn! If we were all alike, life would be very boring. One person's horror can be another person's perfect tent.

My own experience with tents that are lower at head and foot, with the high point in the middle lengthwise, is that they are not suitable for those of us who sleep on 2.5" air mats and use a high pillow (basically, us side sleepers). I had a tent (not the same tent) with this configuration a couple of years ago. Theoretically, being able to sit up in the middle of the tent was fine, and it was great once I was actually sitting. In practice, though I couldn't manage to sit up without brushing my head against the head end of the tent, even when that end of the tent was guyed out. I'm 5'3" (160 cm) tall, and I sure don't know how a 6-footer could manage! Even though it takes a little bottom scooting, I much prefer having the high point at the door end!

I'm not too sure that having a BPL review helps much. I waited for the BPL review of the NeoAir last year and bought the thing anyway (lure of 8 oz. lighter, lol). I found that most of the BPL criticisms were not valid, at least not for me. I ended up returning it, though, for reasons never mentioned in the review (not warm enough and too uncomfortable)! It would have been better if it had been reviewed compared to other 2.5" thick air pads instead of by people who mostly used self-inflating or CCF pads.

Lynn, why don't you write up a formal review of this tent, by name, with photos of the items you critiqued above? You've had a lot of experience with gear and, IMHO, any review from you will be worth reading!

Travis:

Lynn is making some pretty direct criticism. Out of respect, she can keep mum — or she can share it directly with the gear maker in question.

But what Lynn is doing is essentially posting a gear review — without naming the gear! You are right, there may be other views. So if not cowardly, then perhaps just idiotic.

"Send it back and get a bigger tent. Problem solved."

I don't need a bigger tent. I already have two very adequate tents. I got this tent because, in another thread about this tent, I was accused of being an 'arm-chair' critic. Now I'm a bona-fide critic :) I also can't send it back because it's second hand and seam sealed.

I stated my bias at the start of this thread (I don't like 'pup-tents'). You can pick on the terminology if you want, but I have now clarified what I consider a pup tent, and it's not just the pup-tent under discussion that I don't like. I'm just the messenger. A lot of folks will no doubt love this shelter, and other tents that I can no longer call pup tents because even that has proven contentious.

Ben said:
>Guess, I am not the only one frustrated by Lynn's awfully long-winded posts. A simple posting of a photo — or at least the brand and model — would have gotten everyone on the same starting point instantly. Then we can read and actually make some sense of Lynn's critique.

Gee Ben, stirring for the sake of it? THINGS A BIT DULL FOR YOU? Can't drive your browser over to the link I added over an hour ago to the original thread complete with pics?

You're adding to the static, give it a rest.

Reading through this, I think Lynn needs to understand that lightweight or UL tents are going to come with some inconvience…..Condensation on a single walled tent…sure, but you can fight that by the way you pitch your "pup"….I have used single wall tents for sometime now, and if there is condensation, I deal with it. Don't touch the sides. If it is touching my beautiful WM bag….I dry it in the sun in the morning. Also site selection is key Lynn

Gee Rog, feeling compelled to add to the static as well — using your term?

No, I didn't click your link. No idea whether it is or isn't what Lynn was referring to (though she wasn't exactly referring to anything specific — although she was certainly critical of a specific tent). And you would know which tent for sure?

This is a pointless thread.

" I think Lynn needs to understand that lightweight or UL tents are going to come with some inconvience…..Condensation on a single walled tent…sure, but you can fight that by the way you pitch your "pup"….I have used single wall tents for sometime now, and if there is condensation, I deal with it."

My pup (the latest one anyway) was not single walled, and my main complaint was that, even though it was technically double walled, that doesn't count for anything if the fly still sags and touches the inner wall. I fully understand the limitations of UL tents, which is why I don't like UL pup tents. There are far better UL designs available.

Maybe so Troy, but Lynn seems to like to argue for an arguement sake. With that said, if you are reviewing a tent, please name what you are talking about. There are many of us on here that just might have that shelter. If that was the case, we might help in correcting Lynn's issues

Then Lynn, sell it and purchase something else. No harm no foul

I will say the reason I have not even thought about buying a tent from Tarptent or Gossamer Gear or SMD or MLD is mainly because I'm paying over $250 for a tent body. I then need to buy stakes, poles (since I don't use trekking poles), possibly a floor, and seal the seams. Then I need to go back to grad school and get a physics degree just to figure out how to make it tight enough and adjust the direction of this and that so that 1) I don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to fiddle with strings because it's started to sag or the wind shifted and 2) so it's not raining condensation by 3 am.

For the past year, I've been using a North Face Tadpole. I lived in it for 2 months in the middle of the west Texas desert climbing from March until the end of April. I set it up the first day there and didn't move it until I left. Throughout those 2 months it withstood constant 40 mph winds, gusting winds up to 60 mph, and 2 random, out of nowhere severe thunderstorms. Along with days reaching 90 degrees. My poles never bent. They never broke (like my neighbor in his Seedhouse). And not once was I ever wakened by condensation dripping on me. And because my mainstream, owned by Vanity Fair, North Face tent has been good to me, I am buying another over a Tarptent Moment for my solo trip on the CT. The North Face Mica 12.

I understand that this is a lightweight backpacking forum and my Tadpole is by no means lightweight at 5 lbs. I guess the Mica 12 is a tank also at 3 lbs. But to me, those extra pounds outweigh (no pun intended) all the problems and issues of a Contrail or a Moment or a Haven that people always seem to be talking about on here.

"This is a pointless thread."

I disagree. But I will agree that yours is a pointless post.

What's with the 'pile-on-Lynn' bit? It seems, if I'm reading correctly, that Lynn was quite frustrated with a tent, then Ben was quite frustrated with Lynn's post, then Troy was frustrated that he simply couldn't keep himself from reading each post.

Okay, let's all hold hands and sing a song. Or let's invite Dean in so we can all get a hug.

I feel better already.

Troy and Ken — looks like you're adding static as well — but no harm done — you are merely adding static to a pointless thread.

Hey Rog — your damsel is in more distress now. Wanna rescue her again?

As for Ken's contention that Lynn argues for arguing's sake — I would agree — but I count myself (sometimes) as one of those too.

HEY DOUG! If you're gonna invite Dean, then we shouldn't leave out Gross. Let's all hug. :)

Must be something in the water?

"There are many of us on here that just might have that shelter. If that was the case, we might help in correcting Lynn's issues"

Lynn's "issue" is that she doesn't like pup tents. Sounds like it's gonna be hard to fix that issue.

"Must be something in the water?"

Probably all that ClO2.

Six Moon Haven and bug net inner. Bought from Greg on 6/15. Just check the posts. Oh yeah. My first tent was a pup tent. Safety orange and hot. Haven't gone near one since.

Thanks, Ken.

Now Lynn — was that really so hard?

For one, I knew instantly the shelter Lynn was talking about . Enough clues for me in her first post..
(confirmed by that diagram and comments from others)
As for the desire of a single pole supported double wall tent from a certain designer, I am with Troy.
The Scarp does that. You don't even need the "freestanding" set up to keep the inner up if you use trekking poles.
Here is the double wall tarp version…

but it will stand up just the same without the "tarp", you just need to add the guylines to the top of each corner.

Rich
"I will say the reason I have not even thought about buying a tent from Tarptent or Gossamer Gear or SMD or MLD is mainly because I'm paying over $250 for a tent body. I then need to buy stakes, poles (since I don't use trekking poles), possibly a floor, and seal the seams "
I respectfully suggest that you do some research first…
For example the Tarptent Moment is $215 including pole and pegs. Now add $20 for "factory seam sealing" available on application and another few dollars for a couple of extra pegs and two guylines(for exposed areas)
and you have it.
If you have problems erecting this tent, then only some freestandig tents will be easier (but not faster…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWZQKivY2SA

Franco

Ben said:
>No, I didn't click your link.

And I thought you said you preferred looking at pictures to wasting words.