Jun 5, 2010 at 6:38 am #1259805
.Jun 5, 2010 at 7:42 am #1616988
Sean StaplinBPL Member
@mtnratLocale: Southern Cdn Rockies
I think your thread is a good reminder. I did forget to do so on something I bought. It wasn't to be sneaky, I just forgot. I think that is the most common reason. Again a good reminder as it really helps to keep track of what may be going on with an item.Jun 5, 2010 at 8:01 am #1616990
Tom CaldwellBPL Member
I think the "PM Sent" is often used wrongly in regards that some post "PM Sent" to stall gear from getting sold, because everyone thinks the item has sold when only an inquiry has been made.
This subject has been covered numerous times. I think Gear Swap is pretty fair and works pretty well, although I think threads should be updated to state that items have SOLD in the subject lines.Jun 5, 2010 at 8:06 am #1616991
1st off, sometimes i think we take this gear stuff way too seriously. it's just gear after all.
1. no cross post (means, not elsewhere on bpl, elsewhere on www ok, right?) 2. post as sold, when is (sellers resp. not buyers) 3. play nice (easy, right?)
at times i think confusion breeds with the frenzy over 'hot' items, like a $10 pro 90 balaclava that hit last night around 1:30 cst. at least two of us trying within 10 minutes.
who pm 1st, who post 1st, which do you do 1st? if the seller does not specify, I pm, or email if given — then post so seller knows i'm interested b4 others that's paramount, right?
it's the sellers thread/sale, ultimately they manage it based on thier rules of angagement and follow up.
roll with it, take it lightly, if I miss out it wasn't meant to be and a better deal may be round the bend in the long run….
just my 2c'sJun 5, 2010 at 8:32 am #1616993
Henry BlakeBPL Member
I like it when the seller leaves the price on the thread. Then, even months later, my research provides data.
Removing the price when sold serves no purpose, in my mind.Jun 5, 2010 at 8:47 am #1616995
Realized my error and have already corrected my post.
No, it's not too much to ask. And I agree, it would avoid misunderstandings.
Going back to your original post, I don't believe most people are trying to be 'sneaky,' so I would submit that that was a poor choice of words.Jun 5, 2010 at 8:54 am #1616998
@jeepcachrLocale: Great Lakes
Is it being sneaky if I pm the seller with a question or an offer on an item. Should I post in the thread that I did that?
Not posting it any where else means not posting it on another web site which happens all the time. I follow several forums and see the same sellers posting the same things on multiple sites. So it may just be that the seller sold it on the other site. So then its the sellers fault for posting it in multiple places and not updating it here when it's been sold.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:06 am #1617001
As an aside, I find the stipulation that whatever you post here for sale can't be posted elsewhere is plain stupid. Period.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:10 am #1617002
Unless I particularly feel like it I wouldn't bother constantly updating the world every time I make an inquiry or offer. If you're chapped that you sent an email for nothing take it up with the seller, it's their thread, they should update it. Even then, it's just a second hand gear swap, it's not like people don't have lives or anything better to do.
If you can't handle the horrors of sending an email about something thats already sold, stick to retail.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:10 am #1617003
But back to topic…
I sometimes PM the seller directly with questions and/or with counter offers. I am sure others do the same.
I see no problem with the above — just so long as the seller sells to the first person who accepts the stated selling price — or if no one — then the highest of the counter offers. It's what I do as a seller.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:22 am #1617006
re: "stipulation that whatever you post here for sale can't be posted elsewhere is plain stupid"
someone correct if wrong, but i think this has been clarified before….
cross posting, means posting somewhere else on bpl that something is listed in gs fs.
if you list in HF, or WB, or elsewhere the same item it's okay, I think so anyway according to the "policy"?Jun 5, 2010 at 9:28 am #1617009
I'm new here, but if I may. It seems that, "Play nice" is a little vague or lacking. In other forums a simple rule such as the first "I'll take it" in the thread gets the item. Then they PM the seller about the details. Other people will second or third the "I'll take it" in case the sale falls through.
This works well IMO because it sets a standard and keeps everyone informed as to the condition of the sale. Maybe BPL could incorporate such a rule?Jun 5, 2010 at 9:30 am #1617010
I think I read somewhere that if you post something for sale here on BPL, then you can't post the same on any other forums out there. I hope I am wrong — because that's just plain stupid (as stated).Jun 5, 2010 at 9:48 am #1617014
Tom CaldwellBPL Member
@wax, I almost thought that all of your posts were in Gear Swap, until I realized it is only 96% of them.
I admit that I check Gear Swap really often, and before the I check other recent posts. Sometimes the timing is perfect! Always seems that everytime I give up on finding a good listing and don't check it I miss out on something that I was looking for at a steal of a price. Oh well. :)
What I really, really, really hate is when someone posts free gear and gives it to someone that didn't PM first.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:50 am #1617015
Cayenne RedmonkBPL Member
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
I get no value out of the 'PM Sent' courtesy messages.
Everytime I See the seller have to post 'Item still for sale', I know it was just another 'PM Sent' posting meant to confuse the situation and reduce interest in the item.
PM Sent means nothing except a message has been sent. If the item hasn't been sold, I really don't care to know who is messaging about it.Jun 5, 2010 at 9:55 am #1617016
Sherry ThoenyBPL Member
I guess I am confused. How is it sneaky to PM someone and not post that you sent a PM? I have sent a PM before without posting it to the thread. How did I get an advantage by doing that and therefore become a "sneaky buyer"? I never considered it rude, sneaky, or otherwise wrong to do so. I have also replied to a thread without sending a PM. I am relatively new to the forums, so did not realize the proper etiquette was to do both. I will follow that from now on. But still do not understand why it is sneaky not to post to the thread when I send a PM.Jun 5, 2010 at 10:02 am #1617021
It isn't. Nor is it rude. Don't sweat it.Jun 5, 2010 at 10:06 am #1617023
@jeff-kLocale: New York
I agree with others that the "PM Sent" message is useless.
It could mean that someone is willing to pay full price and wants to make a deal. However, it could also mean that someone is getting a quote on shipping, negotiating a price, asking about sizing, etc.
If someone feels the need to post to say "PM Sent" globally, then they should also be willing to globally state the nature of their message.Jun 5, 2010 at 10:16 am #1617024
see this thread, next to last post per Bpl staff,
……Jun 5, 2010 at 10:17 am #1617025
@anywayoutsideLocale: South East
"And I think most people on it behave in a very honest and open way. But I do have a grudge about one thing: sneaky buyers."
Personally, when I buying, I usually don't post. I contact the seller directly and move on with the deal. I can't say I can see how it is discourteous, dishonest or sneaky, but maybe I am missing something. I consider myself pretty easy going and straight forward. I try to be helpful and kind in all my forum relations as I would be if we were on trail together. So I would rather not be considered a jerk because I don't post when buying something. So here are a few questions that could have answers to change my mind.
How does it make a difference to you as a buyer? i.e. What do you do differently if someone has posted "PM Sent" on an item you want to buy?
What misunderstandings are avoided when a buyer posts that they contacted the seller?
I do believe that we may take gear swap too seriously sometimes. I know I have been guilty of it several times.
IMHO I think it goes back to the seller – that is the person you are dealing with. When someone agrees to buy something from me I try to post sale pending ASAP. I try to let everyone who emailed or PMed me know where they stand. When funds are received I post SOLD and usually who bought it. I do prefer that buyers PM or email me. That is usually all I rely upon when putting buyers in line. I am being courteous because I want to not because it is required of me.
Brian – Firstly, Welcome. BPL is a fantastic community that I'm sure you will find can be a little different from other forums. So… I actually don't think there should be any "gear swap" specific rules outside of the suggestion "Once the gear is sold, please edit your first post to reflect that fact." We are adults here. Usually we behave as such. I think 'The Ground Rules' cover it : Be civil, reasonable, and helpful. Off-topic, inflammatory, or inappropriate posts will be removed at our discretion.Jun 5, 2010 at 10:36 am #1617030
Doesn't seem like you're handling it to well or you'd just move on rather than accuse people of being disrespectful, indecent and sneaky. This has nothing to do with etiquette and everything to do with your convenience seeing as evidently all you use this forum for is getting deals on gear.Jun 5, 2010 at 10:53 am #1617034
@jeff-kLocale: New York
>@Jeff: I agree with you. The message should be more precise. >"Offer sent", "Questions sent",… But for the moment some >people don't even feel like posting a vague message (or >should I say "wouldn't bother" ?), let alone a precise one.
A message of "Offer sent", "Questions sent" is not beneficial to the community. Some people have sent me offers on items I am selling that are 50% of what I am asking and I turn them down. If you are also interested in an item and you see "Offer sent" how does that alter your decisions? You still don't know if it is sold or not. "Questions sent" is also not helpful at all.
I have bought and sold a fair amount of items from gear swap although, no where near as some regulars here. I would like to think everyone I have done business with has been happy. I check to make sure they received and are happy with the product and will allow it to be returned if they aren't. I sometimes ship before I receive payment as well. I typically don't post in gear swap unless I am posting something for sale as everything else is done via PM or email. If you think this makes me a sneaky buyer, then we will have to agree to disagree.
When I am a seller I also prefer everyone to send me a PM rather then publicly post. Does that make you think I am a sneaky seller too?
That being said, I think editing posts to show an item has been sold is very helpful. I also think leaving the price is beneficial when others are doing research on the value of an item, but I don't always do that. In those cases I edit my original post instead of posting a message, as there isn't much benefit bumping an old post to the top once it has sold.Jun 5, 2010 at 11:01 am #1617037
80%? what a coincidence! that happens to be the exact portion of statistics that are made up bs!
***It's all about "Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that this item is not available anymore."***
If this is what people actually assume when someone posts "pm sent" then you the polite thing for a buyer to do is say nothing unless they've actually sent the money and it's a done deal, otherwise you're just screwing with the sale.
If anything what you propose is more sneaky.Jun 5, 2010 at 11:18 am #1617042
@sdwhiteyLocale: Smoky Mountains
I think it is the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer or the potential buyer, to communicate the information W is looking for. Like Jonathan mentioned, a seller should post "sale pending" or "SOLD" information ASAP.
As several posters have mentioned, PM Sent does not communicate useful information to me. Buyers should be able to assume the item is still available unless either of those two items are communicated by the seller. That way you can be 99% sure instead of 80%.
W mentioned that:
"A forum works best when information is well distributed among its members."
I think Henry's suggestion helps to accomplish this. It would be great if sellers were willing to keep the price info in their original posts after the item is sold as opposed to erasing it.Jun 5, 2010 at 11:19 am #1617043
@anywayoutsideLocale: South East
"When I see "PM sent", then I know that there's a strong chance (ie: over 80%) that the item is gone. So I don't even send an inquiry. It's useful information. It makes my life easier. If there's no message, then I (as well as all others on the forum) am in the dark."
Well W. you have probably missed out on several items you could have purchased from me because you guessed incorrectly. People ask questions, get shipping quotes, back out, flake out and the reality from a seller's perspective is that "PM Sent" can hurt more than help. Because I am sure there are others who "guess" that an item is sold when it is available.
"PM sent" looks to be the cause of misunderstandings not the cure. "PM sent" isn't an answer to anything. It's not secrecy it's just not necessary and it obviously can create more confusion.
I've swapped a lot of gear – I have a bunch to list today actually – and from a seller to a buyer…post all you want, but if you want to buy it from me PM or email me to let me know. I would suggest sending an inquiry any time something you want isn't marked sold.
I just did a little time study – It takes about 7 seconds to PM someone and ask if an item is still available and about 5 to post PM sent.
edit: Can we get this moved to Chaff? I have some stuff I need out of my way and this is eating up valuable swap space.
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