PCT – Cookless, Small Mug, or Large Pot?

[Here There]

I'm doing a late start PCT thru hike this summer (starting around the second week of June), and I'm trying to decide which method to go with. A large pot (~1.3 liters) with an alcohol stove would probably be the most convenient, but I am also intrigued with the idea of going cookless or taking only a very small mug (e.g. trappers mug), perhaps with a caldera tri-ti system.

So my main questions are these:

1. How hard is it to go cookless, especially if I will be hiking really long days? (I will be doing the trail in about 100 days, looking to average ~30 miles/day.) Is it possible to get good enough nutrition via this method?

2. Has anyone done the PCT with only a small mug? If so, what was your resupply/food strategy, and would you do it that way again?

Right now I'm leaning towards starting the trail with just the trappers mug and seeing how it goes–I can always switch to a different method later.

Thoughts?

-David

[Jeremy Greene]

This thread might be more suited to the "food hydration and technique" forum.

I wish I had the experience to give a definitive reply, but you have months before you go in which to try methods and find the best answer on your own.

First spend a week eating only no-cook foods. Second spend a week eating boil-then-soak. Just use your tea kettle and hydrate in a cereal bowl covered with a towel so you don't have to buy anything. Third spend a week cooking slightly more elaborate meals but don't refrigerate the ingredients. Cooking in a steel mixing bowl and cutting with a paring knife may approximate the worst camp cookware and SAK if you haven't bought anything yet. Clean with a bandana/rag and water warmed in the pot.

Your appetite will be different on the trail, but this should give you some idea about your taste and patience. You are talking about 3 months, so 3 weeks worth of dinners seems a reasonable investment.

[A Wilson]

The man who lives on the PCT goes cookless: dehydrated refried beans, corn chips, nuts and fruit are his staples, I think.

Myself, I like a hot meal, and the ritual of cooking; but it's by no means necessary. If you're doing the whole PCT, try a couple of sections with no-cook food, and see how you like it.

[Frank Deland]

I just googled: The man who lives on the PCT goes cookless" and found this: (dated 2005)

http://www.infohub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3849

scroll to "Food Options"

http://friends.backcountry.net/m_factor/cookless.html

[Philip Delvoie]

For me I find I really enjoy the hot meal and, as mentioned by Andrew, the ritual of cooking…even if it's only just freezer bag cooking. It makes a huge difference at the end of a day. I can easily go without cooking both morning and lunch, but for dinner I fire up the stove for a warm drink and and a hot meal. I vote for a mid sized pot…somewhere between 700-1000ml. I personally use a Caldera Keg F Stove.

I find the pot to be the right size for the meal and drink and I like the caddy for both storage and, more importantly for me, to use as a seperate cup for drinking. (as always…cooking kit subject to change as gearitis overtakes me 8-)

edited to fix link insert.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

In truth you won't know till you are out there. And what may work in one area won't in another.

Doing long days will lead to many small "meals" to keep your energy up – snacking all day that is. In that way your best bet is no-cook items. But have a cold day/wet night and a hot meal may/will look better.

So don't think just one way – think "I can have it all". If you get out there and after a week you never touch a stove, well mail it home. Or have a friend to send you a different setup if you realize you do need a pot and stove. Having a bin of well marked gear and a friend/family member who knows how to mail items is priceless (the PCTA website has a page to generate mailing labels.)

Personally I wouldn't start stoveless but plan for lots of options.

[Brian Lewis]

If you start on the trail cookless and decide you don't like it, it's not as easy then to get a good stove + pot setup. If you start with stove + pot and decide you're happy cookless, you can always mail the stove and pot home.
For me, personally, it was always worth the time it took to heat up water for the freezer bag cooking approach to whatever I was eating that evening.

In your shoes (and assuming you're willing to spend a little money) I'd incline to a high efficiency stove coupled with lower volume pot. I use MLD's 850 ml cup/pot and UL Caldera cone setup. I think that Caldera Keg options are wonderful too. In either case, your total kitchen weight (and bulk) are pretty low.

Tri-ti isn't as light. The wood option might be nice at times, but (with no personal experience) I wonder if the extra time to gather twigs and get a good fire going offset the ability to not always carry fuel. In parts of California, at least, even alcohol stoves are viewed with concern (grass fires in SoCal can get started very easily).

HEET or Denat isn't super hard to get along the trail; get Yogi's book for a list of where it's to be found.

[David Wills]

You will want to consider your overall enjoyment of the experience when deciding on this. Will the extra 3-8oz of a cookset be worth saving in order to eat only non-cooked food? Will you have to prepackage most of your food before hand and ship to keep variety in your diet and avoid food boredom? Will the weight and bulk saved by no cookset be offset by heavier and bulkier food?

I hiked with a few cookless people on the AT. The one i hiked with most did not have a great experience with it the few weeks he tried. Have you considered a midsized pot? Something like a 700ml-900ml Ti, or snowpeak ti bowl (under 2 oz, 700ml more or less). I used the Ti bowl most of the time on the AT and it was pretty solid. Usable for all 1 course meals, but sometimes a mac and cheese box, certain knorr sides or 2 ramen packs overflowed

I plan on doing the CDT next year with my old roommate. I will be using a 1.3L pot instead to care for thru-hiker hunger levels. My old roommate who did the PCT said he is switching from 1.3L down to 900 or 700 ml because 1.3 was too big. I agree with the first responder to practice as much as you can before you leave with the different methods. Good luck on your hike!

[Dirk Rabdau]

David –

Congratulations on making the decision to hike the trail! Awesome…

Since you are attempting to finish the trail in 100 days, that means you will need to average 26.5 miles every single day without fail. If you were to take a total of 10 days off (between town stops, a Whitney side-climb, very occassional zero day, that would push that average to about 29.5 miles per day). I'd figure slower going in the Sierra, for the simple fact there still will be snow and it's far too pretty to fly through…

The decision of whether or not to bring a stove will influence, however slightly, your speed. But a hot meal is also a bit of a blessing, especially after a hard day. I hiked with two people who went stove-less, and one did so without regret. I personally enjoyed the hot food and wouldn't go without.

Are you planning a NOBO or SOBO hike? Certainly, starting in mid-June would have other issues with which to contend – potentially a fair amount of heat in the desert. If you would like to shed every gram possible to make this part of the journey easier, send your stove ahead…Otherwise, I'd heed the advice of Brian and David, bring a stove/pot along at the beginning, and if you find that it doesn't do a lot for your enjoyment of the trail, send it home at the first convenient town stop.

Best of luck to you!

Dirk

[Jacob Linton]

I got rid of my cookset early on the AT this year and didn't miss it too much.
It was really easy to resupply, but I had to eat junk food for four months.
I had really great weather and never really craved hot food. If it had been colder, a hot meal would probably be nice.
I really didn't mind it at all seeing as how that junk food tastes great, but I doubt I'll ever do another long hike without atleast a small mug.
Soon after finishing, I picked up the MLD 850 w/ compact caldera cone.
Definitely start out with something then mail it home if you don't like it.

[Here There]

Thanks for the responses! At this point I'm leaning towards starting with a small mug/alcohol stove setup (~3oz) and if I don't use it I can send send it home, or if it's too small I'll have someone send me a bigger pot (I have a few to choose from).

Last December I did two weeks of no-cook in the Smokies which I thought was pretty convenient, so I think no-cook with the option to have an occasional hot beverage or freezer bag meal will probably work well for me.

On trail I don't usually care much about what I'm eating as long as I get enough calories, so I'm more likely to spend a few minutes building a small fire for a psychological boost then a few minutes cooking food. (It helps that I'm a highly proficient fire builder.)

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

One thing to think about….I have developed a lot of no cook FBC recipes that simply call for cool water and 15 to 30 minutes soak time. Those can be a nice way to get variety but no stove :-)

[drowning in spam]

One thing to consider about using a mug is that if the diameter is small, you'll lose a lot of stove efficiency from the flames shooting out to the side of the mug instead of staying underneath it longer. Whatever weight and bulk you save on cookware could easily be lost and more to the additional fuel you'll have to carry.

You'd do well to properly match your stove to your pot or mug. You might want to take a look at end2endtrailsupply. George has very light and inexpensive mugs that appear to match up well with his stoves, which should help eliminate some of your guesswork.

I totally understand wanting a smaller pot/mug though since I'll only be freezer bag cooking with meals that require 1-3 cups of water. I really only want a pot that holds no more than 3 cups of water.

Anyway, I just ordered a setup from George. I'm crossing my fingers that it gets here Saturday so I can test it during my PCT section(s) hike over the next couple weeks. I'll be happy to share my thoughts on the setup when I return.

[Here There]

Thanks Eugene,

I've been looking at end2end, and would love to hear what you think when you get back. Good luck on your hike!

[Travis Leanna]

I just switched to an alcohol setup from George. I got the Gram Weenie, which works great for my Snow Peak 450. There's been a lot of discussion of this type of setup within the last few weeks on the forums.

[drowning in spam]

I just got my order for George and end2endtrailsupply. George really helped me out here by processing my order quickly and driving down to the post office to get this package out. He also did a few other things to make my order work even better for my needs. I'm ecstatic about being able to use this for my trip next week. George gets a huge props from me.

Anyway, my order included the Gram Weenie Pro and the Evernew Ti teapot. I got this setup because I only need to boil 1-3 cups of water for freezer bag cooking. The pot is very compact, which is a big plus for me. The stove fits within with plenty of room to spare. I wish I could fit the fuel canisters in the pot too, but I knew it wouldn't fit and I haven't found another fuel container that will fit.

I had to light up the stove, and wow, it sure burns! I used 70% and 99% isopropyl rubbing alcohol since that's what I have in the house. The 70% wouldn't light. That's fine, George's instructions says to use at least 90% alcohol. The 99% light right up with my firesteel. I'll experiment more before I leave, but my initial impressions are very good.

[Travis Leanna]

Yup,
George was great to deal with! I might be ordering a second gram weenie….

[Miner]

I occasionally went cookless on the PCT last year. However, I mainly used a firelite 550 titanium pot. For freezerbag cooking, it was more then large enough. Any of the snowpeak small mugs with a homemade lid are good choices as well. Center flame stoves work best with these small pots. I went with a caldera cone stove system and had a 5.2oz total cooking set weight (including spoon,fuel bottle, lighter). However, there are some lighter choices out there.

This was my normal routine. I normally got up at first light and ate a cookless breakfast as I packed up. Took a long cookless lunch break. And then took a dinner break where I cooked dinner and then stopped hiking around 7:45pm or when it was almost dark (which ever came first). By stopping early for dinner, I found that I had more energy to push on late if I wanted to. I ate several snacks in between meals. When the days got short further north, I eventually started cooking dinner at camp in the dark with my flashlight as I wanted to maximize daylight hiking hours.

[drowning in spam]

A center flame works well, but the Gram Weenie Pro and the Ti tea pot worked awfully well on the counter. I put in less than an ounce of fuel and loaded the pot with 1 cup of water. The water quickly came to a boil, so I put in another cup which also came to a boil quickly, so I added yet another cup with the same results. The flame probably burned 2-3 times longer than it took to boil 3 cups of water.

What's weird is I tried to use a little less fuel with 2 cups straight off, and it didn't boil, although the water was quite hot. Could adding water in increments help boil large quantities of water faster? Unfortunately I don't have time to test this right now.

I'm also thinking that the tea pot was an especially good choice with this stove. First, this stove is really narrow, which helps keep the flame closer to the center. More importantly I think, the bulbous base of the pot helps draw the heat around the bottom of the pot, in effect giving it a larger surface area than its cross section.

[Bob Gross]

It wouldn't boil, huh?

Exactly what kind of fuel were you using?

–B.G.–

[drowning in spam]

It only didn't boil because I ran out of fuel. I'm not measuring my fuel precisely at all, but I think the first time I used about 2/3 oz, and then 1/3 oz the second time. I believe I stated the type of fuel I was using. 1-propanol. 99%. I'd love to try different types of alcohol, but that will have to wait until I return from my trip. I also have some wicks that will be waiting for me to test when I get back.

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