Water resistant tarptents

[nategfunk]

I just returned from a 3 day hike in the adirondacks with my first generation rainshadow tarptent. It poured continuously for an entire night and although we remained fairly dry it became clear that the tent did not have enough rain protection. Rain splatter through the netting was the biggest issue, as well as lack of coverage in the overhanging part of the tent that forms the vestibule. The tent also has large expanses of unsupported silnylon that was getting blown around a fair bit in the wind. We've come to the conclusion that a sturdier design is needed for the adirondacks. Something like the tarptent Cloudburst would probably work well although I would prefer a third arch pole in the middle of the tent. Unfortunately noone makes anything more similar to Roger caffin's design, which looks to be excellent. What commercially available tents work particularly well in wet windy conditions?

[Ashley Brown]

I'm puzzled as to why no company is producing tunnel tents similar to Roger's. Like you, I'd be interested in buying one if they were commercially available. It's not like Roger's tents are heavy… I think his standard one weighs something like 1.2kg, which is pretty similar to a SMD Lunar Duo or TT Double Rainbow. The difference is that the tunnel design with three poles is going to be much sturdier in the wind and the snow.

Can anyone fill me in as to why no one is making tents like these? I know Roger said it wasn't economical for him to do it, but is there a reason it wouldn't be economical for one of the existing US tarptent makers to produce something similar?

[Ashley Brown]

Jon, have you tried the lunar duo? I haven't, but it looks like it should be fairly splatter proof…. plenty of distance between the edge of the fly and the netting, and I think you can adjust how low the fly sits according to how high you put your poles. There's no third pole across the middle of the fly though, so I would imagine that strong crosswinds winds would be more of a challenge than the rain.

[Frank Deland]

There are several options found under "Reader Reviews". Warmlite has lightweight, but expensive options, too. Golite makes tents and tarps that close off the ends, although mosquito netting is not included, sold separately.

[Ashley Brown]

Was just looking at the Golite tents. The shangri-la 2 with the bug net and floor weighs in at 1.67kg… quite a bit heavier than 1.2kg. They have an entirely separate bugnet and floor, so you would expect them to be heavier though.

The shangri-la also doesn't have vestibules.

The nice thing about Roger's tents is that they appear to be just as light as the tarptents, but more sturdy and weatherproof.

[Franco Darioli]

There are many tunnel tents on the market, however most newbies prefer the look of a dome tent and that is what mainstream manufacturers design.
How often do you see a tunnel shelter correctly displayed ? Likely you will come across yet another flaccid bit of fabric hanging from two or three free floating poles. Hardly confidence inspiring for the newcomer is it ?
MSR will have a couple of really nice lightweight tunnel designs soon , however they need to use the plus 15% button to up-scale the design, so relatively light but too small for most.
The Stephenson's keep coming up, but folk forget that many don't like the absence of a true vestibule, some find them hard to set-up and others too hot/too prone to condensation. So no point in pretending that an all season tent for everyone can exist. Note that Roger has a few tents and that his winter tent (that I like BTW) is a lot heavier than any Tarptent , particularly to the ones that are currently debating a 1 ounce difference on a inner. ( cuben vs no-seeum)
On the other hand of course, Roger's three pole tunnel is very light compared to most would be winter-able designs…
Franco

[Brad Groves]

All right, all right… I know the reputation he has. But Big Sky has a two-person tunnel tarp-ish tent, fully enclosed, separate vestibule, something like 35-40 square feet, that weighs 1# 12oz (California 2P). The double wall version comes in under 2# 8oz. I haven't tried MSR's Fling yet, but from what I can see after setting it up and crawling around, I think it'll be pretty weather-proof; it's the biggest 32 sq ft I've ever seen (did they subtract some area to allow for staying away from the walls?), sorta heavy at 3# 6oz, but I'm not sure if that weight includes carrying the optional ridge pole. If it didn't have to be a tunnel or tarp, you might also consider Big Agnes' Copper Spur, free-standing double wall, full coverage fly, ~30 sq ft w/18 sq ft vestibule, weight of ~3.5#…

[EndoftheTrail]

Big Sky (BS) has a consistently horrible reputation of taking money and failing to deliver — causing many hapless buyers to wait for as long as 2 years for their tents.

While the current wait may not be quite as long, the company and its owner — Bob Molen — have still not been straightfoward about delivery.

I just haven't seen any recent buyers writing to the contrary — and until people start reporting that they are getting their BS tents within a reasonable timeframe — I would advise staying away — or at the very least NOT to pay in advance.

Knowing their reputation, I wouldn't even mention their tents (however good they are) — lest newer folks fall prey unaware…

[Anonymous]

As pointed out by Franco, partial blame for tent failure can generally be attributed to user error and inexperience. Additional problems leading to inadequate protection from the shelter is caused from the material itself. E.g, silnylon, as frequently pointed out here and elsewhere, expands and sags with cooler, moist air resulting in an original, photo-shop tight pitch turning to a limp, saggy awning blowing in the breeze.

The new Tyvek Sublite, a tunnel variant from TarpTent, eliminates post-pitch sagginess allowing the tent to maintain the original catalog photo perfect pitch throughout the night regardless of any weather changes. My last post on this subject includes photos of the Sublite on day-two camp illustrating this characteristic of Tyvek tents.

[Rog Tallbloke]

The Spinnshelter I got this morning (Thanks again Mike) seems to be staying up sag free through this afternoons showers pretty well. Spinnaker doesn't stretch much it seems.

Gossamer gear supply good cordage with it too.

Less than a pound with 10 Ti stakes, CF poles, all guys and a spaceblanket for a groundcloth.

It's long enogh to accomodate 6'8" of me between the poles too.

happy camper I am. :o)

[John S.]

Ben, thank you for consistently being all over any mention of Big Sky tents (within minutes) whether it be posted on any of 15-20 message boards covering all aspects of hiking and the outdoors. You deserve a reward or something.

; D

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I'd like to see Hilleberg make a solo Nallo-style tunnel tent but it would likely be about 1 to 1.5 kilos (3 lbs.)unless they made it a single wall tent W/CF poles and more venting. However CF's strength is best in compression and not in bending so maybe an aluminum/ CF composite would be better, especially if they spiral over lapped teh CF on the thin aluminum tubing.

That tent's sloping tunnel is STABLE according to a friend in Colorado that uses the Nallo 2 in high places. He sets the tail into the wind if he expects a storm.

Eric

[Roger Caffin]

> maybe an aluminum/ CF composite would be better
By and large, no.
The coefficients of expansion of aluminium and carbon fibre are so different that you risk eventual delamination if you take the poles from 30 C to -15 C many times. The combination is OK for arrows as they don't normally undergo such a range of temperatures.

[Clive Ockenden]

Silicone (possibly slightly diluted ?) seems very sticky stuff when it dries.
Do you think it would work to glue a silnylon sleeve onto the inside of a long tent, eg Cloudburst, or various other configurations/tent designs to provide the option of a 3 pole tent for windy or snowy weather?
A full length pole could be used, or a short curved one which could be joined while camping in the bush to sticks, hiking poles, etc.
Also, could a thin strip be glued onto the outside to tie extra guy lines to, to avoid sewing extra bits onto the rainproof(?) part of a tent?

[Ashley Brown]

Roger — is there anything about your tents that would make them uneconomical for a US tarptent maker to produce? Is there really not much demand for designs like this? Or are they more expensive to manufacture?

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Clive

I have tried using silicone sealant as an adhesive. It works, but the peel strength is not high. That means that the sleeve for the third pole would be a bit iffy, unless you sewed it on as well. However, given the ease with which one can seam-seal a line of stitching, I can't see why one would not use stitching.

As for trying to attach extra guy ropes with silicone sealant- forget it. Guy ropes often have a high and fluctuating force on them, and the fly fabric flaps around. Any glued-on guy ropes would rip off very smartly!

Me, I would stick a second layer of silnylon to the inside of the fly as reinforcing and sew through the double layer.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Ashley

> is there anything about your tents that would make them uneconomical for a US tarptent maker to produce?
'Uneconomical' simply depends on the sale price. Certainly, my designs are more expensive to produce, for several reasons.

1) Tarptents are often cut out of larger panels and with straighter edges; the panels on mine are smaller and do have curved edges. What else do you expect when you go from a 2-pole tarptent to a 4-pole tunnel?

2) Sewing the pole sleeves requires fairly accurate sewing over several passes to get the fairly high strength they have. Perhaps I have been paranoid, but those pole seams are fairly strong. On the other hand, I can sew them …

3) I designed these tents with performance as *the principal criterion*. I did manage to avoid really horrible sewing techniques such as sewing through the middle of a vast swath of fabric; instead almost all sewing is 'edge-sewing'. But ease and simplicity and speed of manufacture was not a criterion.

There is a demand for such tents. We can see this easily as there a number of older heavier designs still on the market selling continuously. However, with all due respect to American walkers, it seems that the demand in America for the sort of winter tent I have is not high. In fact, the demand in Europe seems to be higher than in America: there are several companies making good (but heavier) tunnels there. There is also a healthy demand in both New Zealand and Australia. The New Zealand Macpac Olympus is an outsatnding classic.

However, I *can* make them, and several other people have also succeeded in copying them. If you can persuade a manufacturer to consider talking with me, **please do so**!

Could the design be simplified without too much compromise? Not a lot, but changing from making a one-off (and the first one at that) to a quantity using a known pattern does often speed things up greatly.

Cheers
Roger

[Ashley Brown]

Thanks Roger… very interesting. Unfortunately I have no contacts amongst the tarptent manufacturers. ;-) I do think it's a bit strange that they haven't made a few tunnel-style tents of their own, given the sometimes wacky designs they come up with. Perhaps they have considered and decided they would not make enough profit/sales to make it worthwhile. Who knows!

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