GG Murmur w/Thinlight?

[Glenn S]

I picked up a new Murmur on sale this winter, and was wondering if the Thinlight pad Gossamer sells (19 3/8 x 59 1/8 x 1/8 in.) would fit in the sleeve instead of the sitlight pad that came with it. The numbers say yes if folded in half, then folded in thirds, but does it work out that way in the real world? I can't seem to find a direct answer.

If yes, then any comments of if you like it better or worse for sweating, or pack rigidity or anything else I should be aware of?

[Bob Gross]

Maybe I got a bad piece, but I didn't find that 1/8" thick foam to hold up very well, and that was especially bad where it had been compressed, like at folds.

–B.G.–

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Delmar just bought a roll of CC foam from home depot. He has quite a bit, I'm getting some off him. Its very similar to thinlight, similar weight, slightly less thick.

If you PM him he might be able to send you a piece at cost, you can have a length off my half a roll. Its pretty cheap stuff, whole roll was $65, and I have a feeling that's making at least a dozen pads in total, so way cheaper than thinlight.

[Glenn S]

I was just looking for that thread of his about the floor padding. So how is that stuff holding up? I'm just looking at it as a base pad for my Xlite. I thought I read his piece weighed about 4 ounces or so though, seems a bit heavy-ish, but not sure what size he cut out.

[James Marco]

Glenn, Yup, it will fit. The pad keeper will fit anything up to about 2" thick, maybe a bit more, with some persuasion. I have used 1,2,3,4 and 5 layer NightLight pads. But, I had purchased 3 about 10-12 years ago. This was the old style nitrogen processed pads that eventually get a bit thin. Personally, I don't think I would use anything that soft in the pad keeper, though. It will tend to roll up too easily. You might get away with sticking a couple carbon arrow shafts (grind down the ends to round them) in the folds with a bit of tape in the bottom to make some pockets.

I like a 2 to 5 layer NightLite for doubling as a frame/pad. 4 layers is just under 2", though I cannot say about the new stuff…it's also a lot heavier. The original 5 layer pad was about 9-1/2oz or so after taping, 51-52"long, and 3/4" thick. (Two layers, nested makes it come out about 1" or so.) Nunatak sells a Luna pad that can be cut down to fit and taped together. Or, you might just buy 4 more sitlights, but I am not sure about the nesting. I fold it to get it in, working it into the pockets, at first. After 6-7 times, it loosens up enough to just slip in easily. The mesh is fairly forgiving of being stretched.

I origonally used it with the old MiniPosa, G5, then the Murmur. When it is <40F I also carry the NeoAir. (And, more and more lately, old bones…) Makes a good seat leaned up against a tree or rock…nice for lunch stops. It also serves as a good frame for anything up to 25 pounds, but it does take up strap length. I would say my old pad has 2000-3000 miles on it.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

Don't know yet, he's only just bought the roll. But others have used similar stuff before for hammocks etc on other forums, and at least one other member checked it out.

The advantage is that even if its no better than the GG thinlight, its significantly cheaper. So if it tears, its not that big a deal. Its so cheap that you can try a couple of bits and practise scoring it for folds, or different tape methods for folds, etc, see what works for you. In the end, just stick all the scraps in the floor of your mate's renovation job.

[Glenn S]

James, unfortunately I think I see what you're saying about it being just too flimsy to make a good frame pad. That's too bad. Not quite ready to give up the idea just yet though.

Adam, I was just checking out foambymail dot com. Lots of options, a few good ones in 1/8 inch at the 2 pound density rating (.33 oz/sq ft if I understand it correctly), 60 inch rolls purchasable by the linear foot. Downside is the $13 shipping charge, but free if over a $75 order. Just nice to see what's out there I guess. This one here is $2.49 lin/ft. The sports use description says:

• Sports and Leisure: Contact sports padding (shoulder pads and helmets), insulation in camping mats, insulated boots, fishing flies, foam toys, water sports, and shoulder strap and back support in backpacks

http://www.foambymail.com/VA/polyethylene-foam-roll.html

So only $5 for a 24 x 60 inch piece, but the $13 shipping really spoils the deal.

[Bob Gross]

If you guys need to lighten up, then consider this. Get some bubble pack to use as a sleeping pad. Cover it with maybe one layer of CCF pad, fold it up, and use it as the pack frame.

Bubble pack works OK as a sleeping comfort pad. It is not great as an insulator. It might not live through use in a backpack unless covered with some protection like CCF.

That was the state-of-the-art UL sleeping pad for us about thirty years ago. It comes in at least two types. One has tiny air bubbles, and you need about two layers of it to sleep on. One has big bubbles, and they pop very easily.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

I never had much luck with the ThinLite or NightLites for rigidity, or any other pad for that matter. However, I never tried a cut down torso length blue foam pad. they might be stiffer for this use. With really light loads it doesn't make much difference as I normally remove any hip belt on a small pack anyway. If you need a frame, get a real frame, IMO.

As far as sweating — I am going to sweat no matter what pack I use, so I gave up reducing sweat a long time ago… even an external frame with a mesh back is not going to eliminate sweat. So I have no strategy for reducing back sweat and don't give it a thought any more.

Below is a 3/8" torso sized ThinLite pad folded in 3rds. Weight was 2.6 ounces.

Below is a Suluk46 1/2" padded ground sheet trimmed to 30 X 18 X 14 at 1.87 ounces. It works better than the ThinLite, but is not rigid. It is in a zPacks Zero — same concept, no hip belt.

The pole is for my Hexamid and does not act as any kind of frame.

[Glenn S]

Ahh, photos. Photos are always good! That looks like it should work just fine.

I guess I was a little vague in my reasoning, I was just throwing out some examples of things that maybe I wasn't aware of. Pack "rigidity" maybe received a bit more emphasis than I intended.

As some other threads cover, I'm looking at these thin pads as an Xlite protective base layer. The sitlight is pretty limited, but if I could replace it and fit a full length ground cover that didn't weigh much more instead, then it just seems like a no brainer.

The stores will be open after work this morning, and I brought my scale, so I'll be seeing if I can find some of that Floor Muffler stuff. From looking at these photos, and Delmar's photos, it should work as well as the thinlight, and maybe a bit more durable to boot, or at least I'd have a large stock of the stuff.

[Nick Gatel]

Glenn,

I often don't take a ground sheet — only a waterproof ground pad from Suluk46 — basically a waterproof foam pad. When I only want to protect a NeoAir I take a 1/8" pad and just roll it up and attach it to the outside of the pack. Folding up these thin pads really reduces their lifespan.

That is me in the center with the pad attached to the front of the pack.

[Glenn S]

Well, after getting off work and stopping at all 3 major home improvements stores in my area, and finding the only thing even remotely usable being some white foam stuff that I could shred with my hands, I returned home frustrated and empty handed.

While my frozen pizza cooked in the pizza oven and I sipped a cool beverage, I fiddled with my pack/pad combo, and learned something. With it loaded out to a bit over 16 pounds (about 3 days out), it actually fit and felt better with no pad at all. For some reason I hadn't tried it this way yet, figured it would barrel out too much from loose packing my bag I guess.

The "improper fit gap" at my shoulders (from the one-size-fits-most design) was gone and there was just enough sag to allow a gap to form around my lumbar area for airflow. I will be using the hip belt, so that makes a big difference and is primarily why the gap was formed. I think my torso is a tad short for this pack, especially since I wear my belt high. It feels great without the belt until about 10 pounds, then it starts feeling sloppy and sloshy, so I'll probably leave it attached and use it when needed. 3/4" webbing isn't that heavy.

Since it's still too cold out to where this on any miles without bulky outerwear, all I have to go on is first impressions. I can't wait 'til spring! Two inches of snow forecast for today :(

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