Does this mean I’m ultralight?

[Wesley Larson]

I went through the new Backpacker's magazine gear guide, and I don't think there was a single item I wanted, due to the awareness of lighter, and often cheaper gear options.

Does that qualify me for my UL card?

[Hiking Malto]

Now go to REI and see if there is anything other than a Neoair and maybe some clothing that you drool over. If no then you get your badge.

[Justin Baker]

The only things I buy at REI are iodine tablets, esbit, and socks. Some of the clothes are nice but overpriced.
If I started working at REI i would feel absolutely guilty selling people 70 liter packs and high top boots.

[Bob Gross]

"If I started working at REI i would feel absolutely guilty selling people 70 liter packs and high top boots."

What if you were a Millenial, halfway to your degree in liberal arts or art history, and you couldn't find any other job?

–B.G.–

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Unfortunately my liberal arts education was in philosophy in undergrad and theology in graduate school. I've taken too many ethics classes to swindle people into a 7 lb palace.

[Bob Gross]

"I've taken too many ethics classes to swindle people into a 7 lb palace."

Apparently, it doesn't take much.

–B.G.–

[John Myers]

"If I started working at REI i would feel absolutely guilty selling people 70 liter packs and high top boots."

I'm thinking REI could really use people like you who know more about lighter options.

They do have some reasonably light gear and it would be helpful if their salespeople had more knowledge of the UL world. I've seen light footwear, a couple decent pack options, light pads, stuff sacks, hydration items, etc. there.

If their sales staff helped sell more of that kind of inventory, their buyers would notice.

[Glenn S]

So where else is there to go, to try on shoes? We have Midwest Mountaineering here, but haven't been there in years since I hate the "city". Is there some other store chain I'm unschooled in? There is no way I could ever buy shoes without trying them on.

And I'm referring to lightweight trailrunners, I'm still new to this UL stuff, and last year was a pair of 15oz/pair wally world junkers, just to try out the changeover. I'm good with lo-tops, so now ready to plunk down some money on something more substantial. With 3 feet of snow still on the ground, we're a little out of season still, so I haven't begun my search quite yet.

[Bob Gross]

"If their sales staff helped sell more of that kind of inventory, their buyers would notice."

That is a chicken-and-egg problem. The sales staff isn't going to sell it because the buyers have not bought it for inventory. This stuff isn't in inventory because management thinks (perhaps rightly) that it won't last long, so they don't want to get into an REI satisfaction warranty claim with the customer.

About the only way that REI could do this would be if they had a modified warranty on a special category of ultralightweight gear, like a limited time.

A few of the serious members of the sales staff already know about lightweight gear, but that isn't something that they would have purchased at REI.

At one of my local REI stores, they have an outside instructor do classes on ultralightweight gear and techniques. However, that instructor is only trying to drum up business for his own instructor/guide services.

–B.G.–

[Stephen M]

They have some UL items, such as the Flash 45 pack and UL canister stoves.
But most of the items are heavy weight and lifestyle items, anytime I go to Rei my wife
Purchase more than I do :-)

It would be great if they where more like MEC.

[M G]

"It would be great if they where more like MEC."

Most longtime MEC members I know refardless of whether or not they are UL-ighters think MEC sold out about a decade ago. They are chasing after the yoga mat buying hipsters the same way REI. They just fell from higher up in my book. With the demise of Serratus MEC has produced very few UL winners IMO. They also don't carry anymore UL gear than REI.

[Bob Gross]

This is one of the few areas of endeavor where a comment can be made about somebody, and it means something good: "You're just a lightweight."

–B.G.–

[M B]

"Now go to REI and see if there is anything other than a Neoair and maybe some clothing that you drool over. If no then you get your badge."

++

Yep, when there is absolutely nothing at REI you are interested in, except maybe a neoair pad or the lightest wm sleeping bag, youve passed.

[Justin Baker]

"Yep, when there is absolutely nothing at REI you are interested in, except maybe a neoair pad or the lightest wm sleeping bag, youve passed."

REI sells wm sleeping bags?

[Nick Gatel]

The pundits here on BPL say UL is a base weight of under 10lbs. I can easily put together an UL kit at REI, with many, many permutations.

Those Flash packs don't look inferior to some of the cottage packs I have seen.

I can buy a 22 ounce EN rated 28F sleeping bag.

Several 1P tents for a little over 2 lbs, or a 16 ounce 10' X 8' tarp.

Titanium stakes, Ground Hog stacks, even SMC snow stakes.

Thin guyline and line locks.

Light headlamps.

All sorts of trekking poles to include carbon fiber.

Platy water bottles.

Snow Peak GigaPower or LiteMax stoves. Remote canister stoves. Esbit and alcohol stoves.

White gas, alcohol fuel, Esbit fuel and canisters.

Titanium pots to include MSR Titan Kettle and most Snow Peak offerings.

Titanium, plastic, Lexan, and other light utensils.

Light knives such as the Little Vickie or SAK Classic.

Base plate compasses. And if you must — most Garmin models and even a SPOT.

All sorts of merino from socks, base layers and caps.

Patagonia Capilene 1-4.

Patagonia Baggies.

Nano Puff.

Many brands of light down clothing.

Minimalist shoes. The long popular Salamon 3D Comp.

All kinds of wind shirts.

Rain gear from the old standby Precip to many proprietary WPB to include GoreTex and eVent.

I could go on and on.

I could hitchhike to San Diego tomorrow, try everything in the store, purchase everything I need, to include freeze-dried or dehydrated food; hitchhike to Campo and do the PCT with a BPL-defined UL kit.

[James holden]

^ thats all there is to it … and same to MEC

theres always MEC whiners … not to say they dont have issues, but they have plenty of gear you can make a "UL" kit with

its not like the local stores in canada are any better … ive been to most of them around the vancouver/squamish/canmore area …

people will always hate big stores …

;)

[James Marco]

No. Light, UL, SUL, XUL has nothing to do with where you get gear. While it is true that REI or EMS or similar places carry some light weight gear, the majority of available options at those places make UL fairly incidental.

Example: A true specialty store would have a variety of stoves weighing less than 4oz running on a variety of fuels. REI for example does not carry a penny stove, or, a white box stove or a gram cracker stove. They do not carry a Caldera Cone. They do not carry a 10-12 stove. Nor can you buy alchohol fuel from them. The would much rather you spend ~$5 a pop for a canister for a weekend outing, knowing no one is ever in danger if the stove breaks. Clothing is what they really like to sell you. Why is that? It likely has a lot to do with a large profit margin and they can reinforce "style" changes. The bears don't care about style. An old down jacket works about as well as it did 10 years ago. Not what they want to hear. They would rather sell you a new jacket every other year.

UL backpacker to a regular backpacker is a lot like a fly fisherman to a regular fisherman. The stress is on skill and knowledge. Not on gear. A 3oz packet of feathers and a few sizes of hooks lets you tie most flies as you go. Why would you spend hundreds of dollars on lures? A 5 cent hook and 10 cents worth of thread and feathers will do as well as an 8 dollar lure in most cases. The skill is in knowing what to tie and how to tie it. The skill is knowing how to cast and present a fly or nymph or streamer to the fish.

Does this mean gear is unimportant? No. I UL backpacker still likes his gear. He usually has some good stuff, because he has fewer items. He will spend $400-500 on a good bag because he likes the weight. NOT because he likes the warmth. There are a LOT of bags that are warm at 20F, and a lot that are less dollars. He can often offset part of the price with a less expensive gear elswhere. A typical UL pack (say a Gossamer Gear Gorilla) goes for about $200. A typical Deuter backpack will cost ~300.
A full tent will cost around $300(or more,) a simple UL tarp costs less than $75. A simple soda can stove costs 10 cents, a Caffin canister stove costs over $150. The point is, with the skill set to go ultra light, gear essentals become easily identified and allows you to get better gear and be MORE comfortable in the woods than a regular backpacker. But, the UL gear will typically require some skill with it's use.

Once these skils are developed, it is hard to imagine a 20pound base weight being comfortable. You go to REI and find nothing that will improve on sub 10 pound. And, you start looking at technique, skills, and methodology. I never consider myself as a UL backpacker. I tried for many years to hit that goal. About 9-10 years ago I decided to weigh stuff, again. WOW. I was at 9 pounds! I have lightened up more since, but I never bother checking, it varies for every trip out (depends on conditions, and activity.) It is a nice number, but I know it is not really UL. There is stuff in my pack I use once or twice per trip, usually one or two weeks. I carry spares(batteries, line, tape, etc.) I don't bother stripping this stuff out for a weekend. No, I am not a UL backpacker. Like I say, it doesn't seem important, because every trip out (at least every 3 season trip out) is UL by the numbers. But, I know they are not. I fail to follow the UL philosophy.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Getting more sophisticated maybe.

I'm not one to lean to conspiracy theories, but Backpacker magazine caters to the advertisers I'm afraid. It is a big Recreational Industrial Complex, just like the other specialty magazines on photography, motorcycles, fishing, etc. You get 20 pages of editorial content and 100 pages of advertisements.

Sometimes it is so blatant that a review is on one page with a full page ad facing. It's been that way for a long time and those ads support the whole publishing industry, so it's not going to change.

I still read them and bask in my smugness :)

[Anonymous]

This is one of the most pretentious threads I've read on this forum. While I do support the cottage manufacturers, there is plenty of good gear available at REI including clothing, footwear, etc.

I guess it's cool to hate on REI lately on here given the threads dedicated to trashing their business decision to reduce the unlimited guarantee to one year. This still gives them one of the better and more flexible return policies that trumps any independent, trendy retailer that I've shopped.

[Sean Heenan]

+1 to Nick and Peter.

[Valerie E]

Another +1 for Nick and Peter — you CAN get UL kit at REI, but you have to be judicious about what you choose.

Part of the problem is inherent in the "normal" business model. I just had this discussion with a local REI staff member. Most stores only carry the best-selling brands/models, because in-store real estate is limited (hard to believe; those stores are big!). But this quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you only stock 7-lb Opsprey Atmos/Ariels, then people will BUY Atmos/Ariels, which means those are the "best-selling" packs, which means they'll be the ones your local store has… sigh.

It would take a new business model to say, "let's put a curated collection out there, making sure that we include all kinds of options for different styles of camping/backpacking/etc. — and let's educate our sales force to recommend new brands, new types of equipment to customers based on what those customers want to achieve".

I just told REI this in a survey, but obviously, if what they're doing is working for them, then I will just be a lone dissident. And I can't really blame them for wanting to be successful! They're still a great resource, and I think they're trying their best…

[Andy F]

"I went through the new Backpacker's magazine gear guide, and I don't think there was a single item I wanted, due to the awareness of lighter, and often cheaper gear options.

Does that qualify me for my UL card?"

I don't think so.

But, when you go through your gear for a typical trip and can't find a single item you really want to bring, you've probably earned your SUL card. ;-)

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