Arcteryx Squamish 2014 Update

[Max Dilthey]

Just FYI, I talked to Arcteryx today and the Squamish is getting a new fabric for 2014. The old Squamish used a 20-denier nylon, the 2014 version will use a 30-denier nylon, with a weight increase of what looks like .3oz in a medium.

Also, it looks like there's a slightly more substantial brim in the hood, with a drawstring around the back (was that already there? No?). I will let you guys know how it looks/feels when I get it tomorrow.

Cheers,
Max

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Max,
the fit should also be a bit different. So please check also if could roll-up the sleeves over your elbows (of course, everybody is built different).

[Max Dilthey]

I will. I have athletic arms, but I'm no weightlifter. The Arcteryx rep also mentioned it being trimmer, so I'll go ahead and post fit pictures.

[michael levi]

I was able to see the new version in person the other day.

Not good, the old luminara is so much better. It has a better texture and more stretch. The new fabric is a downgrade.

This is all my opinion.

[James holden]

but hows the breathability …

of course im being lazy … i should just walk into our local stores and check one out … its not like i dont pass by at least 3 dead bird selling shops and the factory everytime i go climbing

;)

[Matt Dirksen]

speaking of lazy…

Didn't someone discuss the breathabiliy on the older Squarmish somewhere on this list?

I thought I read that it was considered by some to be "too breathable"? I just always stumble into threads on how great the old Houdini was.

What would "too breathable" really mean?

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Well, the first 30D Gossamera fabric was measured at more then 100 CFM. Now, there is some discussion whether there was a coating added afterwards that did drop the CFM to 7 (figure according to Arc'teryx claims). That Gossamera is used again.

[Paul Hatfield]

Richard measured a 2007 Squamish at 100.59 CFM.
I strongly suggest not making any assumptions about newer Squamish's based on that 2007 measurement. Unless you are buying a 2007 Squamish, it's best to forget that number.

Here are some of Richard's measurements, compiled by another BPL'er:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvISkg3y0higdG80UzBRVUVaZmlWV1JYeWlVVHV3dEE&usp=sharing#gid=0

[Max Dilthey]

Downgrade why? Breathability? Weight?

[michael levi]

The old 20d luminara was stretchy, lighter, more dynamic and better. The new 30d fabric feels cheap and generic. The old fabric was loved by so many people on this jacket and others like the atom lt. The old fabric was one of the key features that made people like it much, it was a unique fabric i have not seen on other equipment. This is a huge downgrade, in my opinion, I feel like I'd be hard pressed to find out that someone likes the new gossamera better.

[Max Dilthey]

Michael,

Thank you. I'll be especially critical on the fabric when I receive it and post my thoughts. I owned the old squamish for a while, so I'll know the difference. I also put in a ticket to Arcteryx asking about why they changed it (will likely get a sales pitch).

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

What is old as Luminara was only introduced from 2010 and before they used Gossamera ? The change back is, I thought, because they concluded they needed a stronger fabric.
That Gossamera is supposed to be a downgrade while Arc'teryx says they're pratically the same, only Luminare is 20D and Gossamera is 30D.

[Max Dilthey]

Consumer > Ultralighter

If it really is more durable, well, that's not the WORST trade-off in the world for .3oz. They could have done worse.

I'll let you know my thoughts.

[michael levi]

It could be more durable, but the old fabric was something special. Dirt would literally fall off of it, my atom lt with luminara looks brand new and i have never washed it over 1.5 years.

[Max Dilthey]

Yep, bigtime change to the fabric. I'll post pics tomorrow, but it's the same fabric as my 2012 Atom SV. The old Squamish had a gossamer-feeling fabric with no visinle textures. This new 30D fabric feels much rougher, has a ripstop grid pattern, is more see-through, and is noisier than the old fabric.

Worth the "durability" increase? Likely not. However, the fit is much better. I think it's just slightly longer in the torso, the sleeves are dead on, and I wish every hood on every jacket I own was this well-fitting. I'm keeping it.

I know it won't repel dirt: my Atom SV doesn't.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Matt asked, "What would "too breathable" really mean?"

You lose heat to air circulation. Nisely said that 35CFM about the limit for moisture transfer.

I recently got one of the OR Ferrosi shirts and it's not as warm as my old Houdini and noticeably breezier.

There's been a lot of chatter about this lately and I think it is a good study for UL gear in general. The game is weight AND performance. You can get super light windshirts that will block the wind, but if they lack breathability the versatility drops; likewise if they are too porous and don't block cold wind.

To answer your question, you'll know if a windshirt is too breathable when you get a blast of cold air :)

[Overshot]

Are you using this as a replacement to a rain shell? It does seem that it is water repellent. The light weight is attractive, but you loose the full function of a rain shell if this is what you are packing. Traveling light is all about compromises, and multi use, and this seems to fit in line with that well.

I have been using a Montane featherlite for a while. Is this fabric similar to that? It would be nice to have a hood at times. However, I am not sure I would substitute this for a rain shell if the weather looks dodgy.

[Ian]

Hi Max,

Well it's been a month. Thoughts on the new fabric? Does the hood still accomodate a helmet?

[Steve K]

I bought the Squamish from Max and have since used it for some day hikes thus far. Since I have adequate Houdini (2012, 2013 and 2014) experience I can say hands down the Squamish is now my favorite wind shell.

It breathes like the old Houdini and is super, super comfortable to wear. I do agree, the fabric isn't as high tech feeling as the older Squamish models I've seen but it is supposed to be more durable and it performs great. It doesn't seem to me like there is any polyurethane coating on it either, which is one of the primary things that held me back on the earlier Squamish models.

I haven't used it for climbing yet since it's still been cold enough I've worn my puffies, but I have no doubt that the lower profile helmets will fit. It fits big enough on my head that I need to cinch it down a bit. I love the hood, especially with the stiff brim.

To me this could be the wind shell that takes the cake. Hard faced for abrasion and snag resistance, great water resistance, and breath ability so good you don't notice it's there when you're working hard, but plenty wind protection when the weather gets breezy or gusty.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"It breathes like the old Houdini and is super, super comfortable to wear. … It doesn't seem to me like there is any polyurethane coating on it either, which is one of the primary things that held me back on the earlier Squamish models."
Funny as in the Arc'teryx Tech Manual Gossamera has a light PU-coating and has that already for years.

[Ian]

Thanks Stephen that was tremendously helpful.

[Max Dilthey]

I ended up moving it along. It was certainly fine, I just couldn't financially swing a $150 wind shell. I'll tough it out for the season.

[Paul Hatfield]

Air permeability and hydrostatic head tests by Richard here:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=90111

[Ian]

Yeah I read that report yesterday and mine just arrived today. Initial impressions for fit and quality are excellent. Fit wise, while apples to oranges, it's cut like their Atom. I have the XXL so it's 6.5 oz.

I like it enough that I'll just keep it and roll the dice that it works out.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Hi Stephen,
forgot this thread and the fact that I asked about the sleeves. So, can you roll up the sleeves over your elbows ? Of courde, it depends on how your forarms are build. Mine are pretty muscular and wide.

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