Feb 10, 2014 at 9:32 pm #1313167
They can't figure out why anyone would choose to live this way, apart from society. You can't contain or regulate FREEDOM! Fishing license or not, if a man is hungry, he has a natural, God-given right to eat a fish (or the King's deer!). He's an odd duck, I grant you that, but c'mon….
And his friends threaten to make a citizen's arrest of the judge:
I'm sure they were after him for trespassing during the Government shutdown, too, even though his home is in the mountains. This makes me sick. Just let the man eat his fish and live in peace, whatever way he chooses. John Muir and Teddy Roosevelt would be right there with this guy (in the mountains and in jail).
Feb 11, 2014 at 12:34 pm #2072304
@acrosomeLocale: Back in the Front Range
You're sounding a little Unabom there, Matt.
Sort of hypocritical of me, actually, since I'm often accused of the same thing… :)
Some of my Soldiers even gave me a copy of the Unabomer's Manifesto as a PCS gift.
But… does an man in a life-or-death survival situation have a right to catch and eat a fish without a license? I'd argue yes. Does anyone who claims that they are "hungry" have the right to kill and eat any creature they come across?
Most definitely, no. And if you disagree then I'll be by your place shortly to shoot and stir-fry your dog…
As an outdoorsman I have no sympathy at all for poachers. None. Sorry. There are too damned many people to allow at-will hunting and fishing. We'd exterminate everything on this continent larger than a field mouse. Conservation, remember? That said, I like the idea of regulations like Alaska's, which makes allowances for subsistence fishing and hunting by some individuals.
From what I read about this guy he wasn't in any danger of anything, he's just an anti-government wingnut who didn't want to get a license. Did you WATCH the videos you linked? He talks about "oath and bond" and "British magistrates" and "titles of nobility" because the prosecutor has 'esquire' after his name. Am I not supposed to put MD and FACS after mine? (Because that's all 'esquire' means in the US- it's a professional designation.) He also calls himself The Living Man because the name on his driver's license is "owned by the government," not by him… WTF? That's wingnut unorganized militia Montana Freemen verbage if I ever heard it.
He did NOT get hauled away in handcuffs for the misdemeanor fishing without a license charge. He got hauled away for contempt of court. Of which, from what I can see, he is quite guilty. The link you gave makes some sort of harebrained diatribe about him not being allowed to call a witness- but he actually never tried to call a witness, he just wanted an opportunity to play games in court. And, frankly, he was allowed to speak his piece on the issue, but when he just started repeating himself over and over they decided that he was done and slapped him with contempt. I think that judge showed rather good self-restraint.
If he was engaging in civil disobedience, fine. Good on him. I agree that he seems harmless. But he should take his punishment and move on- a principle of civil disobedience. And I still don't want him poaching.
A Montana resident fishing license is $26. If he sells two muskrat pelts he can have a fishing license for a year. (Seriously- I googled the spot price of muskrat pelts.) And it's only $8 if he's over age 62, and in such a case one muskrat would net him two years of fishing licenses.
"The King's Deer?" You make me laugh. The US is actually almost unique in that it's wildlife is considered the property of The People, not the landowners- in Europe to this day hunting is still mostly an upper class perquisite. And I'll point out that The People instituted a government, and tasked it with managing their wildlife in a sustainable manner.
If someone forgets that their license expired, oops, y'know? But I've no sympathy for an unrepentant poacher. Not to mention that the American Taliban (aka the Christian Patriot and Militia movement) make me just as nervous as the Af-Pak ones.
Heck, I have to go. Hopefully this doesn't sound too confrontational without my usual re-re-re-re-editing.Feb 11, 2014 at 7:29 pm #2072441
@jenmitolLocale: In my dreams....
Wow Dean, I actually agree with you AGAIN!!Feb 12, 2014 at 7:29 am #2072582
@acrosomeLocale: Back in the Front Range
Wow Dean, I actually agree with you AGAIN!!
WTF?!? Aren't you a pinko liberal bedwetter or something? How did THAT happen?
:)Feb 12, 2014 at 8:26 am #2072599
@jenmitolLocale: In my dreams....
I also agreed with you 100% on your previous extended tirade on health insurance/payment reform. Right there I thought WTF? And now here again???
You need to go watch more Fox News or something.Feb 12, 2014 at 8:38 am #2072603
Maybe there's a common sense majority somewhere in the middle
Don't listen to the extremes that want us polarized so they can pick our pocketsFeb 12, 2014 at 9:44 am #2072631
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
What?? And I agree with Jerry here. This thread ought to be renamed the Kumbaya of Chaff.Feb 12, 2014 at 10:20 am #2072644
"What?? And I agree with Jerry here. This thread ought to be renamed the Kumbaya of Chaff."
Forget that crap. I disagree with all of you! I'm not really sure what y'all are talking about because I didn't actually read the thread, but I disagree with everyone anyway!Feb 12, 2014 at 11:06 am #2072658
I only disagree with Matt because the defendant was poaching deer. Marmots, however, are pure evil so I would have felt differently if he had been hunting them.Feb 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm #2072677
spelt with a tParticipant
@speltLocale: SW/C PA
I agree with Doug! Kumbaya restored.Feb 12, 2014 at 8:43 pm #2072878
I like fish you idiots. You'll ruin Chaff with all this agreeing.Feb 13, 2014 at 11:02 am #2073072
I hope you are posting this in jest. Obviously that guy is off the charts.
RyanFeb 13, 2014 at 11:51 am #2073107
the truth is that any government employee with a badge and a gun can harrass a citizen at will. the argument should be about the ruling class vs private citizens not right vs left as there is actually lots we can agree on. i know lots of good people who work for the government, but they all have to justify an every bigger slice of the pie.
this guy is an idiot for making a huge deal out of a fishing license. law enforcement is making a mountain out of a mole hill…..because they can.
everyone involved needs to learn how to pick their battles.
wait….is that a drone outside????Feb 13, 2014 at 1:05 pm #2073142
I knew this could only last so long : )
You said "i know lots of good people who work for the government, but they all have to justify an every bigger slice of the pie."
U.S. spending vs time:
From 1930 to 1970 the U.S. spending level increased from about 5% of GDP to close to 25% (ignoring WWII).
Since 1970, the spending level has bounced around but stayed a bit below 25%.
No "ever bigger slice of the pie".
You are being effected by the extremists who want you to fight with "liberals" while "they" (the extremists) are picking your (and my) pocket.Feb 13, 2014 at 1:09 pm #2073143
And what's interesting (to me) about that plot, is that since about 1955, the amount spent on military has decreased (except during Bush it increased a little)
The amount spent on health has increased during that period to make up the difference
Medical expenses have been increasing which is totally screwing up the federal budget, and other government, corporate, and individual finances. We have to bring this expense back into line.Feb 13, 2014 at 1:54 pm #2073165
I can even find some common ground with you, somehow (if I try).
Not sure excatly what went into your numbers though I doubt it includes unfunded liabilities, but that wasn't really my point.
My point is: That the government at most if not all levels is ever more intrusive and the amount of regulation on the whole only increases. The problem with this is that while well intended, many regulations have unintended consequences that effect real people in tangible ways. I have personally been effect to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, it colors my views quite a bit. Our "leaders" aren't wise enough to know what they don't know, not necessarily bad people, just not all knowing.
In my world, I sell to many government agencies. At the end of every budget year they scramble to buy things they don't really need because if don't their budget will be cut for the next budget year. Hence, my comment about bigger slice of the pie as these folks will do whatever necessary to protect their turf.
And Jerry, you are making assumptions about which side I'm on that aren't accurate. I'm against both sides because they all take care of big donors first, not you or me. I'm on the side of personal responsiblity and freedom of thought. No party currently represents that.Feb 13, 2014 at 2:15 pm #2073175
"Not to mention that the American Taliban (aka the Christian Patriot and Militia movement) make me just as nervous as the Af-Pak ones."
Sad but true.Feb 13, 2014 at 2:44 pm #2073186
"I sell to many government agencies. At the end of every budget year they scramble to buy things they don't really need because if don't their budget will be cut for the next budget year."
Same thing used to, and probably still does, happen here.
Amazing how at the end of June so many departments need new cameras….Feb 13, 2014 at 2:48 pm #2073188
You said "ever increasing slice of the pie"
I assumed you meant to say that the government is getting bigger and bigger, and thus we have to cut it.
Which is the idea that right wingers most talk about right now
And I say in response, that as a percent of GDP, the federal budget has stayed about the same since 1970. No crisis that requires major cuts (in every program that helps regular people)
I agree about unfunded liabilities. Like Medicare. and veterans expenses (exacerbated by the two unnecesary wars). and pensions. This is just the annual amount spent. From wikipedia which gets it's data from the federal government.Feb 13, 2014 at 3:43 pm #2073199
I'm pretty certain that the R's would spend as much as the D's. They are going to protect there own, the other government employees, from pressures the private sector has felt for a long time. Basically, the ruling class gets a better program than the folks that pay for it. Used to be government employees made less money with better benefits, not so accurate any more.
Your argument re a fairly constant expenditure vs GDP has merit, and the R's will use that same argument when they fail to cut spending too. It seems to me that when we have real budget problems we should expect better than a constant rate of expense growth. Any private executive who offered that the best they could do was being done would likely be terminated within an hour. It's as if they all agree that failing is the best we can do. Of course, try getting elected (or getting anything done), with a policy of rationalizing every function of government and justifying every expense.
Agreed as far as the wars too. My Dad was in the service and one of my sons currently is. Those boys are not valued as they should be (by both parties) and they are sacrificing themselves for people who have no use for us. I know a few higher ranking folks and privately they all say we should have been out of assganistan years ago. Our military and it's men (and women) are used as props.Feb 13, 2014 at 4:10 pm #2073208
I'm afraid we don't probably disagree too much. This Koombayah stuff is going to make me throw up : )
"Our military and it's men (and women) are used as props."
Like the guy that served 10 "tours" in Afganistan and finally got horribly injured. Received most aplause at state of the union. Why the hell did we put him in there for so many "tours"??? And why the euphomism "tours"???
"Any private executive who offered that the best they could do was being done would likely be terminated"
Yeah, but if the government expense stays the same as percent of GDP then it's probably not a crisis. The annual deficit is dropping. Was $1.4T. $500B in most recent year. Probably much less in next year. We're finally getting out of the two wars. Economy is improving. Biggest crisis is the ever increasing cost for health care but (surprisingly?) Obamacare has helped some.
"I'm pretty certain that the R's would spend as much as the D's."
Clinton – balanced budget with a lot of influence from R congress
Bush – two wars not paid for, Medicare Prescription not paid for, tax cuts (primarily for rich people) not paid for, financial collapse (we can lay some blame on Clinton for that)
Obama – two wars ended, some of the Medicare prescription that wasn't paid for got funded, tax cuts (for rich people) expired, economy much improved
The data says Rs spend much more than DsFeb 13, 2014 at 5:43 pm #2073250
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
"In my world, I sell to many government agencies. At the end of every budget year they scramble to buy things they don't really need because if don't their budget will be cut for the next budget year."
Very true and very wrong.Feb 13, 2014 at 6:08 pm #2073262
If someone knows of a government agency that actually has money to buy crap, please let me know so I can put in for a transfer.
Must be nice.Feb 13, 2014 at 10:14 pm #2073328
@brcrainLocale: So Cal
"Obama – two wars ended, some of the Medicare prescription that wasn't paid for got funded, tax cuts (for rich people) expired, economy much improved"
Really? You think we are on the patch to glory under this administration? /boggleFeb 13, 2014 at 10:57 pm #2073334
@davidadairLocale: West Dakota
>Really? You think we are on the patch to glory under this administration? /boggle
Brawny, its got electrolytes.
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