new SMD packs

[Derek M.]

Like Peter G, I am also interested in hearing more about the Fusion line.

Also, did Ron indicate when the new packs would be posted in his website?

[Thomas Willard]

I think their Facebook page said next week they would start putting out information.

[Chad B]

Did they unveil any new shelters?

[USA Duane Hall]

The one pack style is aimed at those folks who do races or want a fastpack type pack, has a vest type chest strap if that is what you like.
Duane

[Edward Jursek]

Looks like the pack weights were removed from the post? I saw them earlier, but can't find the numbers anymore. Also, no mention of the materials. If I recall the previous listed pack weights before they were removed correctly, the "Fusion" pack was about 2 pounds and the lighter pack was at about 1.5 pounds. I recall being disappointed by the weight. Seems that SMD has bulked up with the addition of Brian. I am not looking for heavier packs, seems like HMG and ULA had that covered, but perhaps that is where the market is going.

[Greg F]

Zpacks seems to have the lightweight sector locked up. I am not sure how much room there is for inovation in the sub 1 lb pack area.

I am interested in the fastpacking pack especially if it has a vest style closure. I haven't found a good pack yet for running that allows me to carry an SUL load. Its more about controlling motion than weight for me at this point.

[Luke Schmidt]

The lightest you can make a practical internal frame pack is about 1.5-2 pounds. If you have a frame, a hipbelt and adequately durable materials you're going to have 24-32 oz when you are done.

What I look for in internal frame packs is not weight reduction but improved comfort. We've had 2 pound intenernal frame packs for years but they are becoming more sophisticated and they can carry weight better.

[Brian Johns]

Ron said they are looking at April. Colors will vary from prototypes, consistent and similar as with their previous pack lines. Sorry about no pics. I thought they were all off limits. I did not now the lighter ones could be shown. No harm no foul, though. EJ did an excellent job on the photo front – and got the instructions right.

[Anthony Viera]

Is the April target for the 50/60 L packs as well?

[Peter Griffith]

Here's some details about the new packs that I remember from the SMD GGG presentation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

General
* The priorities in designing the packs in order were 1)Comfort, 2)Durability, 3)Function, 4)Weight (I believe the middle two are correct, but certainly the first and last are correct)
* They believe the market is retreating from ultralight back to more comfort
* They have increased their dealer network and consideration was taken in the design to stand out on the retail shelf

Fusion
* The spine is made of foam and is about 4" wide to minimize contact with the back and reduce back sweating
* The spine has a single aluminum stay that can be shaped to fit your back
* The stay runs down the center of the foam spine
* The spine attaches to the inside of the hip belt with a Velcro patch
* The shoulder straps are shaped like a yolk and attach to the spine with a Velcro patch
* The torso size of the pack can be adjusted S-M-L by moving the shoulder straps up and down the Velcro patch
* The shoulder straps have built in pockets
* The hip belt has a plastic insert all around that gives it more structure
* There is a slot in the plastic in the ends to allow it to conform better to the hips
* The hip belt pockets are not removable and are on all packs
* The hip belts are unisex, no male and female versions
* The hip belt has two independently adjustable straps from each side that connect to a single buckle to allow the belt to adjust to people's different shapes
* The hip belt attaches to the pack at a single patch in the center of the bottom of the pack. I believe it attaches with Velcro
* The material is nylon.
* The top uses a roll top configuration
* The mesh on the side pockets looked very similar to the ULA Ohm mesh
* There are two ports for hydration tubes
* The colors will be green and yellow (I think)

Flight
* The lighter weight pack line is called Flight, a combination of fast and light
* Ron said Brian Frankle has been focused on trail running for the past few years
* He gave Brian the latitude to do what he wanted with the Flight series
* The shoulder straps are like a vest with two attachment buckles across the chest and come with built in pockets
* Ron said that this design transfers the weight to the core and off the shoulders and also stabilizes the pack from swaying while running
* The hip belt is mesh with pockets as standard and attaches with Velcro in the center
* There is a delrin hoop that begins and ends at the center of the hip belt and goes up the side of the pack and across the top
* There is an aluminum stay that can be shaped to your back
* The compression straps begin at the spine and wrap around the pack to draw the pack away from the back
* It does not have a back mesh pocket
* There are two ports for hydration tubes
* The colors available are as shown in this thread

[Ryan Smith]

* They believe the market is retreating from ultralight back to more comfort*

He is 100% correct, which I think is both good and bad for my interests. Finding more comfort in a light package is a great goal, but I'm afraid it will halt future innovation in the lightest sector of backpacking. I hope not. There are enough cottage guys out there covering the market now days that it may make no difference at all.

Packs look interesting. Good on SMD.

Ryan

[Greg F]

Does anyone have a picture of the chest attachment on the front of the Flight pack? I am very interested in how it looks.

This has be excited as it could be a new tool not just a lighter tool.

[Steven Paris]

Greg,

I didn't take a photo but I did get to try it on and watch as others tried the pack. Many of us thought the fit of the shoulder straps/yoke was very similar to the fit of a Nathan running vest, basically wide and flat that can curve around the chest area when worn. The best photo in this thread is the side view of Mark Verber wearing the red/white pack (tan hat, black shirt above). You can see how flat and wide the shoulder strap is and how the strap or yoke (maybe a better term would be "wing") connects under his arm to the two webbing straps behind. The are 4 small pockets on the yoke.

One possible issue we discussed would be the fit for a woman with a large chest (this was actually a benign conversation that included a few women!).

Several of us thought it did an excellent job of controlling excessive motion; however, the pack only had a few pounds in it, so that might change with 20+ pounds.

[Ron Moak]

Here is a photo of the Flight 40 Harness. The Vest has a total of 6 pockets (three on each side). Plus there are two pockets on the hip belt. The full size hip belt will be standard although you can opt for a lighter model with mesh and pockets. The standard hip belt has significantly better load support.

The support for the Flight 40 is a Delron hoop stay. The ends of the stay, terminates at the point where the hip belt attaches. This provides maximum support.

Ron

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Very nice packs. Congrats on developing a promising product.

[And E]

I am really digging that flight 40! The vest harness seems like a very cool idea. I love my Golite Jam 50… but now that I made a down quilt and won't need as much volume vs using my synth quilt… might just have to pick one up!

[Derek M.]

Finding more comfort in a light package is a great goal, but I'm afraid it will halt future innovation in the lightest sector of backpacking. I hope not. There are enough cottage guys out there covering the market nowadays that it may make no difference at all."

I don't think it will make any difference at all. SMD is clearly vying for a larger market than the niche ultralight crowd. I think it's often hard for us to get a wider perspective on the backpacking market in general because BPL is a sounding board for one particular extreme of backpacking (i.e. the lightweight variety). This is obviously the purpose of BPL in the first place, and I think it's great.

The niche ultralight market is already being taken care of by many other cottage manufacturers. SMD clearly wants to get into higher volume sales, hence the move to Asian manufacturing in the first place. If Ron and Brian say they think the market is moving slightly away from weight considerations and more toward comfort consideration, I'm sure this is backed up by some evidence that they have collected. We can speculate all we want, but we've got no skin in the game. Those guys are in it for their livelihoods, so I'll take their word for it.

[Edward Jursek]

Seems like SMD has been more concerned with moving towards a more retail oriented business model. I have stopped considering them a "cottage company." I recall SMD's defense of the dramatic price increase of the Skyscape X as being due to the need to provide a profit margin for SMD's retail partners. That was the moment SMD lost me as a customer. Now there is a new line of heavier packs that appear to be moving more towards the space occupied by the likes of Golite, albeit likely with superior products. That is part of the market that holds no interest for me. I will be looking to Zpacks, MLD or Zimmerbuilt for my next UL pack.

[Lance Stalnaker]

Maybe it's just me, but count me as one that is not that impressed/taken back by this design.

This pack looks way too overthought to me, it kind of screams "we need to do something different to sell more packs" not "what does the market need" IMO. I just don't get it, but I will withhold final judgment until I hear some reviews from folks that use it, but it won't be me.

[Shane S.]

Unsure if this particular pack is suited to me (I'd like to examine it in person and try it out), but I absolutely dig the refreshing and cool racing stripe colors and materials and can appreciate what SMD is doing. The pack looks like it will be outstanding for it's intended purpose. They have many products that I dig and recently bought a skyscape X, which is stellar. I support SMD, and believe they support us (hikers, backpackers)and am grateful for all the great products they have bestowed upon the backpacking community. Good to see that they aren't stagnating, but exploring new avenues.

[Christopher *]

"…we need to do something different…"

I don't really see this as different or new. The design looks very similar to the Mountain Hardware SummitRocket 20 vest-pack, but with added capacity, a hipbelt and the delrin hoop. I liked the SummitRocket design and I am happy to see it modified with hiking as its specific purpose, but I am slightly disappointed as I was hoping for something … I don't know … new and genuinely different.

The bigger risk-adverse industry brands used to take inspiration from the smaller more innovative cottage manufacturers. This appears to challenge that paradigm.

[Ron Moak]

If there is one thing that is fundamental to the design of the new pack line up. It’s the desire to remove “Pack Weight” as a deciding factor in choosing a light weight pack. At the core of all UL packs and most lightweight packs, is the need to choose your pack both on pack volume and final pack weight. This model is fine for the dedicated UL geeks that inhabit the world of BPL. However, for most recreational hikers, this places an added burden.

Our goal is pretty straight forward. If the gear fits into the pack, the pack should be able to carry it comfortably. There is a clear linkage between gear volume and weight. By reducing the volume, you are automatically reducing the pack weight. And hopefully have a more enjoyable hike.

In order to help spread the benefits of UL hiking to the 99 percent of the market that has no desire to become gear geeks, it’s imperative that we begin to develop products that address their needs. Should the benefits of lightweight hiking only be bestowed on those willing to get a PHD in the UL Black Arts? I don’t think so. I think lightweight backpacking should be available to everyone.

To those that are somewhat concerned about our expansion into to Retail, do I need to remind you that this is where most people are exposed to gear. Where they can touch it and try it on. If UL is to make a fundamental change to your average hiker, it must become more retail based. If the small guys don’t start making the move, eventually the larger players will develop products that fill the gap. Leaving the UL industry to decreasing clientele of UL Geeks.

As to those concerned that we’re somehow following the Golite model. That’s hardly the case. For the most part Golite has pulled out of retail, except for their stores. Plus 90+ percent of their sales are for clothing. Something which we have zero interest.

As for innovation, it’s simply not something that we think about. We’re in the business to solve problems and only solve problems. If doing so creates innovation, so be it. Brian and I have spent a great deal of time thinking about packs, what they do, how we feel carrying them and how we use them. I’ve got forty years carrying packs including several thousand miles carrying a framed pack. Plus I bought and extensively used the first true internal framed pack to hit the market in the late 70’s.

I have no illusions that our packs are the panacea for all backpackers. In fact I specifically told the GGG group that for the most part they weren’t our target market. Though I do expect that some of you can benefit from the new designs.

[BlackHatGuy]

"To those that are somewhat concerned about our expansion into to Retail, do I need to remind you that this is where most people are exposed to gear. Where they can touch it and try it on. If UL is to make a fundamental change to your average hiker, it must become more retail based. If the small guys don’t start making the move, eventually the larger players will develop products that fill the gap. Leaving the UL industry to decreasing clientele of UL Geeks."

+1

[BlackHatGuy]

"I don't know … new and genuinely different."

Not sure there really is anything that can be new and genuinely different. As others have said before, it's a bag you wear on your shoulders to carry stuff. I think Aarn packs were the only radical departure from that, and they've never been popular with most of the UL crowd.

I've always seen 'new' packs as an iterative process, and the new SMD packs are no different. They've taken various facets of existing packs and refined them in certain ways to build their new packs. From the demo and the quick try on I had, I think they'll be really nice packs, that they'll carry very well, and that they'll be durable to boot.

I like 'em.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"I like 'em"

+1

Weight is for me just one of the factors for choosing.
And maybe this is an interesting read: http://andrewskurka.com/2012/is-lightweight-backpacking-label-dead/

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