Vertex Ultralight backpacking stove – 1.8 ounces and packs flat

[Kevin Bailey]

There is a 1.8 ounce fuel tablet/alcohol burner stove on Kickstarter that packs completely flat. May be of interest to you guys…

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1903954393/vertex-ultralight-backpacking-stove

[Link .]

Are you affiliated with this product and Kickstarter campaign ?

[Kevin Bailey]

Yes, I am the project creator. I thought the project may be of interest to the "Gear" forum.

[Link .]

You should be up front about that in your posting since you have a vested interest in selling it.

[Roger Caffin]

Kevin

We have very clear rules about disclosure requirements, which your first posting completely ignored. I was very close to deleting the entire thread as a result. Please be warned: full disclosure is required, and commercial postings should be in Gear Deals.

Roger Caffin
Online Community Monitor
Backpacking Light

[Seth R]

Aside from 1.2 oz, how is this any better than my three piece Esbit stove that also folds flat and offers more surface area to support the pot? Also costs less than $20.

[Kevin Bailey]

First…apologies to the forum. I did not intend to violate any posting rules, just was unclear on them. My fault.

In regards to the advantages of this design:
1. The advantage is primarily the weight, which is always a significant factor for UL backpacking.
2. This stove also allows for removal of the fuel tray and engagement with a Trangia burner,allowing for readily available fuel.
3. Many common collapsible Esbit stoves are of a folding box design, and don't get this flat. There are some multi-piece (i.e. 3 sided ones) that actually have 4 pieces with the fuel tray.

Everyone has their preferences for stoves, and I'm not going to say that anyone else's is wrong…just that I feel this is an intriguing design.

Thanks.

[Kevin Buggie]

Kevin, despite the'warning' thanks for posting anything on the forum. No worries

Here at BPL the moderator also sells stoves; check Editors Roundtable for, 'The Evolution of a winter stove – part 3'. Valiant MYOG turned cottage project, but in this context I'm not going to read a dozen pages of postings history to see if Roger's got a disclosure in there; haven't read one lately, just everyone else getting scolded.

Just some American bluntness… ;)

P.S. full disclosure, I'm not affiliated with either stove company. I own an optimus Vega invert stove, but do plan to order one of the Caffin stoves soon. This esbit stove would be great traced onto ti foil.

[Kevin Buggie]

So, if it packs flat, I'm going to assume that the 'fuel tray' referenced is a flat surface and not a 'tray' like the BGET (Brian green esbit tray) that captures esbit residue for a purported longer burn (definitly makes a difference, but mostly longer simmer heat IMHO).

Would that be a correct assumption?

[Kevin Bailey]

Hi Kevin,

Great question. I'm attaching some pictures below to maybe help explain. The fuel tray has a slight recess in it to prevent Esbit residue/liquid from spilling off. Since the stove is made of thin flexible tempered steel, the 3 pieces stacked together are about 2.5mm total thickness (without the carry bag).

Hope this helps,

Kevin

[Bob Gross]

"In regards to the advantages of this design:
1. The advantage is primarily the weight, which is always a significant factor for UL backpacking."

This is a pretty strange statement, since this is far heavier than some available Esbit burners. How is this heavier weight an advantage except for the person promoting the project?

–B.G.–

[Kevin Bailey]

Hi Bob,

Respectfully, there are advantages and disadvantages to lots of designs…that's why not everyone carries the same stove. There are designs lighter than mine that have no wind protection. There is a folded piece of aluminum foil, that is lighter than anything but not at all robust. I think this design is a good blending of various requirements.

There seems to be some disdain for anyone promoting anything. Full disclosure: I'm an enthusiast (not an expert…there are people on this forum that have been backpacking longer than I've been alive), that is trying to get support for an idea that I think is pretty good. I'm not a big manufacturer, or trying to take advantage of anyone. If you think my project is cool….fantastic, I'd love to have your support. If you don't, fine also.

-Kevin

[todd]

Beautiful, elegant design! The thinness when packed is nice too.

I will probably stick with my folding ti-wing stove w/ baking pan foil windscreen since it all packs in the pot, but I think your product is lighter than several other designs. That and the cool factor should make it a success with proper marketing and product delivery.

Best of luck to you.

Todd

[Anonymous]

To BPL, sorry people feel the need to attack you instead of offering helpful advise or just keeping to themselves if they don't agree with someone. Good luck!

[BPLwiia]

Obviously, Kevin has to disclose that he has a financial interest. Having said that, I really like his design and it refreshing whenever any small company offers alternatives to the market dominated by large retailers and box stores.

Best of luck in your venture, Kevin.

[BlackHatGuy]

"We have very clear rules about disclosure requirements, which your first posting completely ignored. I was very close to deleting the entire thread as a result. Please be warned: full disclosure is required, and commercial postings should be in Gear Deals."

Ya know, I looked in Gear, and I looked in Gear Deals, and I didn't see any rules about disclosure requirements. I then went and read the Terms and Conditions of Use. Nope, no disclosure requirements there either. So I noticed the "Ground Rules" bit over at the top right when creating this post, so I clicked on the BPL Forum Ethics link and read that post from Ryan. Again, nada about disclosure requirements. The closest that post comes is near the end, when Ryan writes: NO COMMERCIAL POSTS IN THE FORUMS. Of course, that's not really followed, and it doesn't address disclosure.

Now those of us who've been around for a bit know about the disclosure requirements, but how are new folks supposed to know about these clear rules, since they don't seem to actually be listed anywhere? Don't get me wrong, I think disclosure is a good thing, I'm all for it. But it's a bit silly to get testy about a new person not properly disclosing in their first post when, as far as I can tell, there's nothing to tell that new person about disclosing.

Perhaps such language needs to be added somewhere obvious before we get all up in arms? Just a thought.

[BlackHatGuy]

Kevin,

Pretty cool looking stove you've made there. I'm happy with my Caldera Cone, but I do wish you success.

Doug

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Doug

> Ya know, I looked in Gear, and I looked in Gear Deals, and I didn't see any rules
> about disclosure requirements. I then went and read the Terms and Conditions of Use.
> Nope, no disclosure requirements there either.
Um …
You know, I was sure we did have some stuff somewhere … but the web site has been overhauled a bit recently. Maybe it got lost, maybe it was all in my imagination. So I will discuss with Ryan about adding these rules (again?) somewhere obvious.

Thanks
Cheers

[BPLwiia]

…of Terms and Policies says a poster may not "advertises or otherwise solicits funds or sales of goods or services."

That prohibition is entirely useless because, if taken literally, everyone posting in the GEAR SWAP forum would be in violation of this rule.

[MFR]

Kevin, I really like your design–stove, windscreen, and pot support all in one. Honestly though, I'd really prefer a titanium version. For the price and specs, I don't see the value in stainless steel.

Hopefully your project gets funded; good luck.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Interesting stove. I'm reminded of the Clickstand stove design.

There is a weakness is see in the design, as I expect it to need a windscreen. The Clickstand has extensions on the corners to mount a windscreen. Do you have a provision for using a windscreen?

[Jerry Adams]

Isn't it just obvious that if you're pushing a product and profiting from it you should reveal your financial position? "Provision #7" seems to cover that regardless.

With Roger's stove and tent, he says he's making a stove/tent. He doesn't say "there's this great stove/tent" that turns out to secretly be his product.

With gear swap, since it says "Gear Swap" it's obvious the person owns it and wants to sell it so your financial interest is revealed.

If you made gear as a business and sold it on gear swap, maybe you should state that rather than implying that you bought it and want to re-sell, but minor issue.

[Kevin Lane]

1. I guess I am one of the new guys round here so am kind of confused. Is this stove being sold someplace? If so by whom and how much?

2. Any chance the exchanges concerning propriety could be done via private e mailing or messaging, or if posted in public deleted? Remember the message from The Right Stuff: The Issue is not [baby cats], the issue is monkey"

Kevin (Paddy)

[BlackHatGuy]

"1. I guess I am one of the new guys round here so am kind of confused. Is this stove being sold someplace? If so by whom and how much?"

Read the first post. There's a link to the kickstarter campaign.

"2. Any chance the exchanges concerning propriety could be done via private e mailing or messaging, or if posted in public deleted? Remember the message from The Right Stuff: The Issue is not [baby cats], the issue is monkey"

Nope. I don't think I've ever seen a thread that didn't get off topic in one way or another, in some degree or another.

[D S]

Looks like a good MYOG project to me;-)

[Author]

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