Safety of sleeping on the ground with no critter protection

[Elliott Wolin]

My wife just about stepped on two Copperheads in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia. I'm not sure who ran away faster, her or the snakes! They were just sunning themselves in the middle of the trail, or so it seemed.

[Buck Nelson]

That said, statistics are great unless you're "that guy".

Once something has already happened, the odds won't change history, but a reasonable grasp of the odds are absolutely vital for a rational risk analysis looking forward.

There's enough risk from lighting to stay off ridges during lighting storms, there isn't even close to enough risk from snakes to rationally worry about sleeping on the open ground in the U.S. or Canada.

[Desert Dweller]

I think in the OP's case I would think more about precautions for ticks given the area they were talking about. We are relatively tick free here, and given the terrible consequences of getting tick fever or Lyme disease I"ll take the rattlers and scorpions thanks.

[Stephen Barber]

The following is pure speculation!

A properly rated sleeping bag doesn't radiate much excess heat, and it zips all the way to the head. That means a snake wouldn't be able to sense much warmth from outside the sleeping bag (except at the head), and wouldn't be able to enter the bag easily, even at the head, without waking the sleeper.

But back in the day of the cowboy and mountain man, folks used blankets and furs for sleeping insulation. Blankets (etc) leak considerable heat, especially at the edges. A snake crawling by could easily sense that. Plus the half-open edges might mimic the kind of cracks and crevices that feel like a nice protected resting spot to a snake. And they'd be easy for a snake to enter to cuddle up next to the source of warmth.

Thus my speculation is that the stories about someone waking up in the bush with a snake curled up next to him come from back when blankets and furs were normal bedding, and have been carried forward and modified to our sleeping technology cuz they are so wonderfully scary to tell to noobies around campfires, and generate nifty threads at BPL!

[steven franchuk]

years ago my dad had something get in his sleeping bag when he was sleeping. When he noticed it he didn't move in case it was a snake. However after a while the animal did move and he could tell it wasn't a snake. So he made a sudden movement and the mouse ran right over his face.

While a mouse is not poisonous they do carry viruses that do sometimes kill people. rattle snakes are one of the few species on earth that can see infrared light (although not very well). So on a cold night to will move to warm spots that they can see. Even If that happens to be a person in a partially unzipped sleeping bag. If that person doesn't move the snake might think its a safe place and move in.

Rattle Snake can be active day or night. they hunt whenever they can and move into warm place when it gets cold. They hibernate in small caves or abandoned tunnels left by burrowing animals.

While most bites are to kids and people seeking out snakes. The few b back country bites I have read about occur when a hiker startles a snake that he didn't see. Often rattle snakes don't inject venom. They mainly bit to keep people away. When they are startled or stepped on they might give you a full dose of venom.

[Marko Botsaris]

Yet another reason for full enclosure? In the Grand Canyon one night while Cowboy camping I had one arm out of my sleeping bag. A Great Horned Owl attacked my arm (fortunately I was wearing a puffy jacket) in the middle of the night, though it realized the mistake pretty quick and only tore my jacket and not my arm. I can tell you that is an adrenaline-soaked way to get jolted awake in the dark. LOL

Another reason – nocturnal-carnivorous-cannibalistic desert rabbits!

[Valerie E]

I always warn newcomers to these parts: beware of the venomous Sonoran bunnies! ;~)

[Desert Dweller]

Some have antlers, we call them jackalope.

[Sumi Wada]

>> I'm not asking about outlier cases but is it a real concern or just a fear that should be overcome?

Not a real concern. I'd get over the fear.

>> Is this a pretty normal way to sleep?

Yes.

As a general rule, I don't sleep with my food.

[Anonymous]

Ah, yes, Lepus californicatus tularemius. A most dangerous beastie, indeed. Do not attempt to feed or pet. Active at night, and the only known effective barrier is an inner tent made of chicken wire. The Sonora is a harsh land, and no place for ULer's.

[David Chenault]

John, I've spent a lot of nights sleeping out under the stars or just a tarp, in the southwest desert, Appalachia, Alaska, Montana, etc, etc.

Worst thing that happened as a result was a fly on my face a time or two. The only time I don't take this approach is during serious mosquito/black fly time.

[Bob Gross]

"Lepus californicatus tularemius"

Also known as the jackass rabbit.

The only one that is worse is the swamp rabbit.

–B.G.–

[diego dean]

There are some that believe owls are responsible for a handful of unexplained deaths previously thought to be murder cases.

Quick Google search shows its not that uncommonn to be attacked.

http://www.king5.com/news/environment/Aggressive-owls-attacking-people-at-local-state-parks-178012581.html

[Hiking Malto]

I was a bit apprehensive about scorpions while hiking in the Southwest. In the end the worst nighttime experience I've had was with ants. Not sure how they communicate but when they start to attack, they all do at once.

[Miner]

Since you said you were leaving today, this may be too late but I was cowboy camping in Joshua Tree NP the last few days until I got back today.

I've been cowboy camping and tarp camping since 2006 which includes 3500+miles of hiking. I never camp in meadows, too many field mice. I never camp next to places with signs of burrowing or holes in the ground as something lives there and is best avoided. I look for signs of crawling insects before setting up camp. If I see ants crawling around I look elsewhere. If you see a mouse running around the area, roll your gear up in your ground sheet and walk a short ways away. Mice will always come back no matter how often you chase them off.

Following these rules, I never have any problem, except one time. My only time with a critter getting under my quilt was a frog. I was camped within 20 feet of a creek during a thunder storm under my tarp. A frog the size of my hand was trying to get to the creek. I woke up noticing my hand was touching a slimely rock. Then I woke up enough to realize that there weren't any rocks nearby when I set up camp. I freaked out until I realized it was a frog. Afterwards we had a staring contest for a few minutes until it moved on towards the creek since I was no longer blocking it. Going by the wilderness rules, it was my fault as I was camped too close to a water source.

Now that said, flying insects may be an issue so I hope that you have a bug net, bivy sack, or at least a headnet over a hat to sleep in. Though probably not an issue in winter.

[Anonymous]

"Not sure how they communicate but when they start to attack, they all do at once."

Pheromones.

[Rex Sanders]

Tick got into my tarp shelter one night and bit me in the chest as I slept. Woke up and scratched it off before I was awake enough to think it through. About 30 hours later I had to cut the trip short and hike out with a large swollen infection. Doctor gave me serious antibiotics and said if the swelling gets any bigger than the circle he drew on my chest, go to the ER. He also said tick bites result in a lot more serious Staph infections (like mine) than Lyme and other exotic stuff. Luckily, the antibiotics worked fine,

Since then, I camp only with full critter protection.

— Rex

[Marko Botsaris]

"There are some that believe owls are responsible for a handful of unexplained deaths previously thought to be murder cases."

I didn't know it was that common! If I could become a wereowl I'd probably go for it – on the flight vs invisibility question I'm firmly in the flight camp for my preferred superpower.

It's interesting that in the story (thanks by the way for posting the link) there is speculation similar to that of a ranger I was chatting with in the GC a few days after the "incident" – that it might have been a young and inexperienced owl trying to catch everything that moved – and probably extra hungry on its way up the learning curve. Damn ignorant punks! They are everywhere.

The fact that they attack ponytails was hilarious. Must be like a lure for them with both the action and the hairiness.

I do hate ticks – number 2 reason in my book for a full enclosure where they are present. Around here we have a ton. I have had the experience during the peak part of the year walking under and oak with my Houdini on and hearing them rain onto my hat and the the nylon of the jacket from above.

Number 1 is not so much getting bitten by mosquitoes, but having them fly near an ear at night. For some reason that is just like talon on a chalkboard to me. Having one fly into or near one ear while I'm asleep is worse than a dental drill in my book, and bivys don't work on this issue for me. It sounds like they are flying right into your ear, but probably they are really 6 inches away or something.

[Miner]

If I'm camping in areas where ticks are an issue:
1) my clothing is treated with permitrhin so they don't latch onto me.
2) I also spray the outside of my bivy sack and ground cloth with permitrhin so they don't crawl on my when I slept.

Spraying any netting you are using also keeps the mosquitos from coming as close to your ears with that high pitch whining noise.

[jscott]

I'm sure that it's safe to sleep on the ground. I just don't want to. Ants, mosquitoes, flies, ticks, etc. When I turn my headlamp on to read in a tarp, every friggin' weird insect known to man comes a crawlin'. Geeze, I hate insects when I want to sleep!

Oh and then there was the mouse in a hantavirus area that scampered over my face all night long. No thanks.

And yes I did once share a site with a very large rattler one night. I was glad to be in my zip up tent, although I doubt that this was a safety issue.

[Don Morris]

I too have endured mice scampering over my body, but the instances i remember all occurred in structures while sleeping on beds. Mice are a definite problem, because "an area with hanta virus" would be essentially the North American continent.

[USA Duane Hall]

I'm guessing I had an owl swoop in one time in the Marble Mt Wilderness here in N CA. My dog and I were sleeping on the ground cloth and had a mouse trying to make off with my food. In hand to hand combat, I killed one and heard something swoop low over us about that time also and had no more issues that night. We've been used as a spring board on another trip where we were sleeping in a little one morning and the Douglas squirrels were chattering all around and after a bit, I felt one run over my hips and proceed on its way. The dog never smelt it or anything.
Duane

[Rex Sanders]

One night I was sleeping under a tarp in a well-abused camp site in Idaho. Mice running over my face looking for scraps of food woke me up several times before I figured out what was going on.

— Rex

[David Thomas]

My personal experiences of "an area with hanta virus" include returning to news reports of that first big outbreak in the SW (circa 1994) from a caving trip in which I'd been on hands and knees in pack-rat-infested passages (the ammonia from the centuries of urine was overpowering at times). And hearing about the second wave of deaths in Curry Village Signature Tent Cabins after having spent 3 nights in Cabin 931 which housed one of the fatal cases.

Perhaps it's a good thing I get examined by a physician every day.

[Don Morris]

The first evidence of hanta virus came from the community of Del Muerto, adjacent to Canyon de Chelly National Monument. During the 19070s, I had done considerable field work in Canyon de Chelly, including about twelve months excavation at a prominent cliff dwelling about four miles from Del Muerto.

With excellent preservation at the site, I was able to furnish some mouse feces known to be 800 + years old to a scientist studying amounts of heavy metals in the environment then and now. In short, the stuff was everywhere and we wallowed in mouse turds on a daily basis.

The original proposal was to name the strain of HV first identified as "Del Muerto virus" – ominously appropriate, to say the least. the community objected, and the strain is known to science as the "Sin Nombre virus" (no name virus).

A few year later, HV was identified in the mice on the Channel Islands, where I worked for sixteen years.

I understand that HV virus will become ineffective after about five minutes exposure to strong sunlight. Thus it is rarely a problem if you are backpacking, moving from one camp to another. Different story if you are in a relatively permanent situation like Curry Village.

[Author]

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