A 3.4oz fire starting insurance policy

[Dan Yeruski]

Nice choice Dale.

A few years back I went the DIY route. The large signal flares were on sale at Kmart really cheap, inventory closeout type of sale…couldn't resist :-)

I cut the flare short enough to use electrical tape to seal the joint where the 2 plastic edges met. I also sealed the stricker cap with electrical tape also. I have the flare in my emergency grab-n-run kit.

I was hypothermic once at home. Long story made short….Experienced the uncontrollable shivering and motor skills of my hands and other parts. While in bed trying to warm up and recoupe, my wife was doing all she could to help me along. I layed in bed thinking of the firemaking skills that had learned over the years and info on hypothermia. I knew at that point how difficult it would be to survive while being in the shivering state of hypothermia. I was home at the time, temperature in house 60 degrees? I had been laying on the living room floor waiting for the next dash to the toilet when the shivering/chills started.

Be prepared in any situation that can lead to hypothermia. Get that flare out of it's protective package.

I read on the internet of an individual who died of hypothermia in cabin, out in the woods. He must have entered the cabin in the advance stages of hypothermia. There was plenty of fire wood, matches and a woodburning stove in the cabin. They said there was no indication that he tried to start a fire. I read that many years ago when doing research. I tried to find the site but could not…sorry.

edit to add link:

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=216&hilit=signal+flare

[Dale Wambaugh]

Shelf life is important to consider with many emergency supplies: matches, first aid items, batteries, etc. that is why I used the Seal-a-meal to package the flares, reducing air and moisture exposure as well as general wear and tear of packing.

I imagine you could break open a flare and use a firesteel to set off the innards if the striker fails.

I replace my matches each Spring. That's one thing I like about firesteels: they are very stable. I rely on a mini Bic for general fire lighting.

I carry a Bison Designs spy capsule jammed full of Tinder Quick tabs on my "survival" keychain along with a firesteel, AA LED flashlight, whistle and Leatherman Style CS tool. That is always in my pocket. In my other pocket is a K&M match case full of REI/UCO storm matches and strikers. I also carry a folding knife with a locking blade or fixed blade knife like a Mora.

For day hiking I have my poncho for general rain gear and emergency shelter plus an AMK space blanket bivy. My first aid kit, a few Micro Pur tablets, an extra insulation layer, compass and maps, and spare food completes my essentials list.

[David Thomas]

>"At the time, I was saved when I remembered I had a Svea 123 in my pack. "

We were sea kayaking out of Seward, Alaska and I went in first. I just got lucky – it wasn't skill – and came in right between smaller waves, scrambled out the boat and dragged it up the beach just in time. I tried to wave Kristin off, but she was already following me in and wasn't so lucky. A 6-foot breaker dumped over her as she sat low on the beach.

I dragged her and her boat up the beach and decided, "This doesn't need to be pretty, it needs to be fast." and started the single-burner propane stove (upright on a 1-pound propane bottle) mostly buried it in the pebbly beach, and piled driftwood on top. When the driftwood was going nicely, I reached under and pulled the stove out.

[Hamish McHamish]

Great and timely thread. I have done the "jump in the cold lake, wade to shore, then start a fire with the tools in your pockets" drill and like Eric said it is instructive.

The forecast last weekend was calling for steady rain and highs around 38-40 degF so I took the opportunity to enjoy some "good living" on a local trail system. I brought a small flat tarp, and hiked in the gentle rain. I got to a nice spot next to a lake and set up the tarp just as the harder rain came. The wind was shifty and kept the rain moving at various angles.

It occurred to me that:

– Had I been hypothermic it would have been quite challenging to deal with it from scratch. Being proactive pays. Prevention really is better than a cure.

– I was really loving my Patagonia R3 hiloft jacket.

– I was strongly motivated to simply hide under the tarp in my synthetic clothes, and had I been overnighting I would have been very glad to have a synthetic bad instead of down. I know, some of you guys are masters at keeping your down dry but I don't need any further burdens.

Kevin said:
"We were stuck in a 10 hour rain shower a couple weeks ago and manage to get a nice fire going."

How did you protect the fire from the ongoing rain? I'm pretty experienced at starting a fire when the forest is wet, using split squaw wood, fuzz sticks, pine pitch etc etc but not so much when the rain is actually pelting down.

I would love to hear some BPLers' strategies for keeping a fire going in steady rain when you do NOT have a fixed shelter (AT shelter, cave, overhanging cliff, etc). How do you keep the fire protected and also keep yourself out of the rain? It seems too dangerous to have a fire just under the edge of a silnylon or cuben tarp.

I have been toying with the idea of carrying a "sacrificial" fire tarp cut from 3-mil poly sheet but I haven't tried anything with it yet. And it's a chunk of extra weight to tote.

[David Thomas]

>"I would love to hear some BPLers' strategies for keeping a fire going in steady rain "

Basically, piling the wood higher on the fire and staging wood next to the fire so it is getting some heat drying off a little bit.

Building a rock wall for the far side of the fire reflects a little more heat back at you. More importantly, it reflects heat back at the wood drying it out, and it lets you pile the wood higher.

I find each time I get lazy and think, "I'll let the fire burn this branch/log in half", it takes WAY too long and I can stack the wood as tightly as if I'd sawed it in half or skipped using it.

[Ian]

I've read threads on BPL of people using flares to scare off bears (Bob perhaps) so there's a potential third use for this item.

[Justin Baker]

"I would love to hear some BPLers' strategies for keeping a fire going in steady rain"

First thing is to place it under the densest tree canopy you can find, this will do a lot for keeping the rain off your fire.

Next thing is to make it BIG. Get big logs burning. You want a coal base that you could forge a greatsword with. Make it big because when it's big with a hot coal base it will take a lot more rain to put it out.

If you are going to use wet wood, you need to get the wet wood drying out as soon as possible. What I usually do is put a big log on the opposite side of the fire parallel to the fire and my shelter. Then I start leaning pieces of wood against this big log so they are propped up above the fire. This allows them to dry out and at the same time I'm basically creating a lean-to over the fire which helps protect it.

I have kept a fire going all night to keep warm in light to moderate rain a few times.
Keep some dry kindling with you under your shelter and stuff some hot coals into your cook pot. In the morning you will have an easy time restarting the fire to warm up or cook.

[Stephen Barber]

David and Ian have it right: in the rain, the fire needs to be big, and you need to put put more wet wood behind and beside the fire to start drying early. "Behind" is as much for reflecting as drying. A rock wall can make a great reflector if it isn't channeling run-off into the fire.

This is NOT a LNT technique!

David, great fast fire technique there! I have a friend who says the best way to start an emergency fire when you're wet and cold is with a pint of gasoline! Good point, but a bit uncontrollable, especially when hypothermic. But fast beats slow and complicated in those conditions!

[David Thomas]

>"the best way to start an emergency fire when you're wet and cold is with a pint of gasoline "

Stephen, If that's all you've got, and you don't really need your eyebrows for the next month, it works. But gasoline is so volatile, much of it flashes to vapor and burns in the air above the wood. Add any fuel low so its flames heat the wood. Diesel is a better choice per ounce because it is longer burning and not nearly do dangerous to light.

Synthetic fibers are good fire starters in pinch. Don't burn your clothes – it's better to wear those, but 550 cord and such add wind-proof BTUs once lit.

Whenever I've taken a wrap, sandwich or crackers out on a trip in a zip-lock bag, I end up carrying the zip-lock bag for the rest of the trip. One is fine because it makes a nice, sealable trash bag, but one than one is a pain. Wrapping the first few days of food (which for me is often normal, around-town food) in waxed paper makes disposal of the wrapper very easy. And wax paper is a wonderful and safe fire starter.

[Roger Caffin]

> "I would love to hear some BPLers' strategies for keeping a fire going in steady rain"

Yes, I can light a fire under bad conditions; I just don't bother. We get the tent up, get inside it, strip off, dry ourselves and get into dry warm clothing. Then I start the stove. Hot soup. Beats pfaffing around in the rain (snow) trying to light a fire EVERY time.

Cheers

[Larry De La Briandais]

"Synthetic fibers are good fire starters in pinch."

I was considering what to sacrifice when my buddy discovered the cooking oil.

He had tried white gas, which I kept telling him wouldn't work. A pint later and no fire…

[David Thomas]

>" We get the tent up"

+1

Standing around a campfire in the rain gets one side of you (at most) warm. While the other three sides get cold and wet.

Another alternative to setting up the tent is to just keep hiking. If you've got clothes that dry as you wear them (non-down, non-cotton), I'll often hike when the weather is worst because I don't want to stop and cool down. Then when the rain lessens, I ventilate more and start looking for a protected camping spot.

[Bob Gross]

"pfaffing" ?

What is that?

–B.G.–

[Dale Wambaugh]

Once the fire is well established and hot, I always have at least two good sized logs in the fire with a space between, creating a hot spot that keeps both logs burning. I start with a tipi of small dry branches with tinder inside and a space for sliding my starter tinder bundle into.

Having a good supply of wood at hand is part of the deal. There's nothing worse than getting the fire going and leaving the warmth and light to stumble around in the dark trying to find more suitable wood.

The first place I look is for low dead and dry branches that can be broken off, which is intermediate fuel that can be broken or shaved down for lighter tinder. If camping by a fast moving river, you can usually find wood in the rocky banks that was left at higher water. I've found wood quite a ways back from the main channel in flatter flood areas.

I don't normally have a fire unless I'm in a campground and I've brought a supply of firewood. As much as I like the romance and warmth of a campfire, it just creates too much damage to the environment and my equipment. I do count fire making as a necessary skill for backcountry travel.

[Bob Gross]

"Having a good supply of wood at hand is part of the deal. There's nothing worse than getting the fire going and leaving the warmth and light to stumble around in the dark trying to find more suitable wood."

That brings up the old story of the difference between the red man and the white man. The red man gets caught in a storm, so he gathers a small amount of wood, builds a small fire, stays very close to it, and he stays warm all night long.

The white man gathers a large amount of wood and builds a large fire. The fire burns down and he stays warm all night long by running to find more wood.

–B.G.–

[Gary Dunckel]

That white man was pfaffing about with his fire, Bob.

[Bob Gross]

… and all along I was thinking that Pfaff was a sewing machine.

Pretty funny. He really had me in stitches.

–B.G.–

[Larry De La Briandais]

Australian for dicking around.

English

Verb
pfaffing
Present participle of pfaff.
Usage notes
Normally used in the form pfaffing around.

English

Verb
pfaff (third-person singular simple present pfaffs, present participle pfaffing, simple past and past participle pfaffed)
(UK, slang) Alternative spelling of faff.  

English

Etymology
Dialect, "blow in gusts."
Pronunciation
(UK) IPA(key): /fæf/
Rhymes: -æf
Noun
faff (plural faffs)
(UK, slang) An unnecessary or over-complicated task, especially one perceived as a waste of time.
Adjusting this television is a bit of a faff.
 
Verb
faff (third-person singular simple present faffs, present participle faffing, simple past and past participle faffed)
(UK, slang) To waste time on an unproductive activity.
I decided to stop faffing about and get some work done.
Usage notes
Particularly used with about or around.
Synonyms
dick around (American)

[Dale Wambaugh]

"Yes, I can light a fire under bad conditions; I just don't bother. We get the tent up, get inside it, strip off, dry ourselves and get into dry warm clothing. Then I start the stove. Hot soup. Beats pfaffing around in the rain (snow) trying to light a fire EVERY time."

Indeed, if you have a shelter, dry clothing and a warm sleeping bag, you don't need a fire!

Fire is for when all else has failed; otherwise, it's the pitter-patter of raindrops on well tensioned synthetic fabric overhead and a soft sleeping pad below. With mug of hot chocolate with a bit of rum, you can almost convince yourself that camping in the rain is a good thing.

[Dan Yeruski]

This guy was my inspiration on the skills to survive with fire:

Here is some information you may find interesting and inspiring:

Fire and Rain
by
Dr. André F. Bourbeau

Quote:
In my opinion, knowing how to start a fire and how to keep it going in a drenching downpour is one of the absolutely essential survival skills. No one is going to make ME believe that I can go out there in freezing rain at about 0 degrees Celsius, after it's been raining for days, pile up some half frozen and sogging wet debris for hours to make a debris hut, crawl in with non-waterproof clothes on, and not fall victim to hypothermia in very short order. Been there, done it – just doesn't work! I speak from experience. I've slept out with no gear whatsoever in that precise kind of weather, at the very least, 100 times in the past 25 years.
When the going gets rough, and days of freezing rain, sometimes followed by -35 degrees is just about as rough as it gets, the only thing that will save your life is fire. Noted survival expert, Tom Elpel, just came back from a 4 day walkabout. How did he spend each night? By a fire. I do the same, and any experienced outdoorsman will also do the same.
Fire, fire, fire – you've got to become a pyromaniac. It's the only way to survive! Freezing rain is worse than deep cold, because you can't even build a snow cave or snow shelter…
If there's material for a debris hut, that means there are trees, and if there are trees, there is firewood, and if there is firewood, there is fire. And if there are no trees, and everything is soaking wet and freezing cold, and you have no rain gear or shelter, sorry folks, but your luck has just run out.
Just like bough beds – make me laugh! Just try lying on one of those soggy soaking wet beds made from dripping evergreen branches. You won't last 2 hours in really cold weather, I guarantee it.
So, if you want to survive, learn how to make a fire in the rain. Sorry, that just can't be learned by reading, you have to practice. Why practice when it's nice out? You don't need a fire then! It's when it's miserable and soggy and soaking wet and all your clothes are drenched that you need a nice big bright beautiful fire to dry you out and keep you warm. Please practice this skill during the worst thunderstorms you can find, close to camp. THIS is one skill which WILL save your life- even without shelter.
Out of 32 students who sign up for my bachelor's degree in outdoor adventure pursuits in their first year at the University of Quebec, on average, only 1 or 2 can successfully start a fire in the rain – and they all have experience. Imagine beginners… No wonder so many people die from hypothermia.
The problem is that everyone has learned to make a fire by picking out small twigs from conifers, then putting them on the fire one by one, then bigger ones, then bigger ones still – as if size of wood and leaving enough air were the only factors to consider when making fire. It isn't as simple as that. There is a lot more to this skill than meets the eye.
Of all the skills I teach, starting fire in the worst downpours (at least with matches, BIC lighters and a magnesium match) is on the very top of my list of priorities. I cannot EVER stress this enough. If you want to survive, LEARN THIS SKILL!
Best wishes for dry weather in the meantime.

Read entire comentary here http://www.equipped.org/andre.htm
Here is more information from the same site and I quote:

Quote:
Sparks
The most reliable way to start a fire, though not the easiest for those with little or no experience, is with a commercially prepared (artificial) flint and steel (your knife will do for the steel, though some such fire starters come with their own). This is a practically unlimited resource that won't run out and that works in any weather.

The artificial flint used for such purposes is similar to the flints used in traditional cigarette lighters, but it is a somewhat harder alloy in order to give off hotter and more long lived sparks. It is comprised of a mixture of metals and rare earth elements, by weight approximately 20% Iron (Fe) with trace amounts, less than 3% each, of Zinc (Zn) and Magnesium (Mg) and the remainder a combination of rare earth elements, 50% of which is Cerium (Ce), the remainder primarily Lanthanum (LLa) and Neodymium (Nd) and trace amounts of some other rare earth elements. These are alloyed at high temperature and then extruded into rods of various diameters. When scraped with a hard, sharp edge a thin layer is scraped off and the resulting friction heats the scrapings up to the point of ignition, giving off an impressive shower of very hot sparks. Note that this scraper doesn't have to be steel, but the edge does have to be hard and sharp enough to scrape with. A broken piece of glass can be very effective, for example. The back edge of many knives works as well as the sharp edge, if it hasn't been eased.
By comparison, natural flint is a very hard quartz mineral, harder than most steels, which when struck on a sharp edge by steel or iron creates small sparks by removing and heating up the softer metal. These sparks are relatively weak and few in number, so making a fire with these requires a fair amount of skill and special tinders. Natural flint is a real pain in the you-know-what to use compared to the man-made variety. Fine for those re-enacting the experiences of the Old West's Mountain Men and the like, but not very practical for us today. Some manner of man-made flint should be part of every survival kit.
The longest lasting artificial flints are the conventional 1/2 inch diameter by 2 or 4 inch long flint rod, usually incorporating a cap or hole with a lanyard attached. Sometims there will be a steel scraper attached to the lanyard. More expensive versions may be fitted with a bone, antler or wooden handle. A bit large for anyone focused on minimum weight or size, but you'll get a massive shower of sparks with these large rods. They will last through hundreds of thousands of strikes, so for a survival situation using them up is impossible.

The entire article can be found at this site: http://www.equipped.org/devices28.htm

Also can be found on my website:

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63&p=71&hilit=andre#p71

[James holden]

one thing to note is that a fire maple stove weights ~50 grams these days … and a small 100gm around 200gm … add a small cup for around 60 gm …

and you have a pretty "reliable" firestarting kit … that lights quite easily

its probably worth taking even for day hikes … especially in the winter …

;)

[Justin Baker]

The white man fire, red man fire thing is a load of b.s.
It originated in times of hostility between settlers and natives. White men would make large fires that could be seen from very far away with lots of smoke. The natives would be able to find them easily at night and ambush them. The natives knew how to make fires very stealthily and limit the amount of smoke. In some cases they used an old technique where you dig a small fire pit in between your legs and wrap a wool blanket over everything, very stealthy.
The necessary size of a fire depends on so many things, big vs small is such a silly oversimplification. The most important thing is setting up a fire to burn for a long time without needing to feed it again. Keeping a fire small, doesn't burn very long.

I can tell you from spending many nights sleeping by a fire that there is such a thing as making a fire too efficient. You can build up a reflector wall, pitch a couple space blankets to reflect heat from the sides, and set up your shelter 3 sided so that the heat will get trapped in. You will be able to keep yourself warm with very little fuel… this is not necessarily a good thing. It means that you can only use a small amount of fuel without overheating. A small amount of fuel doesn't burn very long and you will have to constantly stoke the fire.
The best way to keep warm through a night with a fire, unless it is very cold, is to not focus on reflecting any of the heat back at you. Just throw a few big logs on there and it will last for a few hours.
So basically efficiency is not a good thing unless it is below freezing or you have a limited amount of fuel. Build the fire to a point where you can get at least 2 hours of burn without needing to re-stoke it and then if you need more heat, add more efficiency before more wood.

[Justin Baker]

"I don't normally have a fire unless I'm in a campground and I've brought a supply of firewood. As much as I like the romance and warmth of a campfire, it just creates too much damage to the environment and my equipment."

I don't agree with this in every situation. Campfires have caused a lot of ecological problems around well used areas. It's especially a problem at high alpine lakes.

However, in my experience, outside of well used trail camps there is an overabundance of dead wood due to wildfire suppression. So much dead wood that it crowds out the forest floor and prevents knew growth.
I do most of my winter camping off trail in well forested areas. There is so much dead wood that there really is no reason not to use it. We usually build massive fires.

As far as LNT, that's more an issue with campers than with campfires. People build fire rings in inappropriate places and don't dismantle them. They leave big piles of coals laying around. The proper procedure is to stop all of the coals with your shoe until it's all a powder/ash. Once it's all a powder, the rains will wash everything away. Big coals tend to stay around for a long time. After crushing up the coals and dousing with water, I kick a bunch of dirt and debris over the fire to conceal it. After a good rain and some debris falling from the trees, it disappears entirely. Totally LNT, imo.

They key thing here is fragile ecosystems vs. disturbance based ecosystems. It's very difficult to cause ecological "damage" in a disturbance based ecosystem.

[Don Morris]

Back in the day, my trusty carbide light was a firestarter of last resort. Worked great…

[Larry De La Briandais]

"Campfires have caused a lot of ecological problems around well used areas…After crushing up the coals and dousing with water, I kick a bunch of dirt and debris over the fire to conceal it. After a good rain and some debris falling from the trees, it disappears entirely. Totally LNT, imo."

I have never understood what this concept/skill is so little understood or used. I have camped where this was REQUIRED. And rangers came around and verified compliance. I once had one watch our entire process until it was done.

[Author]

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