Oct 21, 2013 at 2:54 pm #1308977
Curious why so many seem to despise the TP? I'd also like to know how much the haters know about the TP, doctrine/manifesto, secret hand-shake, elected leaders, etc.Oct 21, 2013 at 3:17 pm #2036111
Pretty simple for me.
I agree with their core principles of fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and somewhat with free market economics.
The first two principles speak for themselves but free market economics is not so simple in my opinion. In a true capitalist society, if a bank used poor judgment and gave loans to anyone who had a pulse who walked through their doors, this behavior would be corrected when/if people defaulted on their loans. Unfortunately we don't allow capitalism to work the way it should and bail out too large to fail banks and insurance companies when they follow poor business practices. It's fair to say that many of these banks were pressured to make many of these mortgages available to undeserving customers so this is admittedly oversimplified but you get my point. Bottom line to me, if your service is so critical to the economic survival of the U.S. that a tax payer bailout may become necessary, then more government regulation and oversight is necessary. If your business is one that can simply fall to the wayside if it fails, then leave it alone for the most part (OSHA, food inspections, etc notwithstanding).
In spite of this, I was on board with their platform and subscribed to their newsletter (which I still receive) but they quickly lost my support for a few reasons:
1) They take Taxed Enough Already too seriously. There are three ways to earn more than you spend (in my opinion): lower spending, raise tax revenue, and stimulate the economy therefore raising tax revenue without raising the tax rate. Without going too far into my personal economic theory, all three have their limits and there are times where taxes need to be raised. Obviously if you go too far with raising taxes, you can kill jobs and create a financial burden on the average citizen but there are times when it's appropriate. I think their "never ever ever raise taxes" mantra is naive and a recipe for disaster.
2) They started venturing outside the scope of their charter. Once I started receiving emails from them in opposition to gay marriage, I completely gave up on them. The economy is enough to keep them busy for several generations; there's absolutely no reason for them to take on outside issues like this and alienate people from what they are trying to accomplish. I personally believe that gay marriage is guaranteed under the 14th Amendment and feel that they are trying to apply the constitution as they find convenient.
There's more than that for me but these are the major points.
Edit to add: I pondered the other day that admitting that you used to support the Tea Party is like admitting that you've been to a Nickleback concert. You permanently lose street cred after that.Oct 21, 2013 at 3:19 pm #2036113
There's the approximately 30 TP representatives that want to shut down the government and not raise the debt limit that would cause even more chaos. That's some reason to hate them.
If a group of Democrats shut down the government and didn't raise the debt limit unless the Republicans agreed to a bunch of gun regulations (or choose some other liberal policy) I'de hate them too.
In recent elections, some TP people won their primary but couldn't get elected so their Democrat opponent won. If a more moderate Republican ran, they would have won. This effect may be stronger in the next election, like it's possible the Democrats could win the House. In this case, I'm going to start loving the Teap Party : )Oct 21, 2013 at 11:00 pm #2036289
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
The Tea Party started as a somewhat non partisan or libertarian movement opposed to taxation and overspending.
It was hijacked by neoconservatives, right wing Christians, and racists. This is why many libertarians, Ron Paul for example, avoid associating themselves with the Tea Party. They may agree with the founding principles but the idiots that the movement attracts have ruined it.
And then neoconservative, statist republicans used the tea party as a launching point for their campaign. These people completely go against the founding principles of the tea party but the party is already hijacked, so whatever I guess…
Of course there are plenty of videos of a guy walking around looking for stupid people to interview and ask tough questions and filtering out anyone who answers intelligently.Oct 22, 2013 at 5:52 am #2036324
"People hate the tea party because they are hypocrites, racist, and basically stupid".
Lots of good information. Didn't know about the racism.
Didn't the TP support Allen West? …or Cruz
Please explainOct 22, 2013 at 6:36 am #2036335
"It was hijacked by neoconservatives, right wing Christians, and racists."
and by corporists, like the Koch brothers who finance it, like with fancy buses with big American flags on the outsideOct 22, 2013 at 8:21 am #2036358
"Of course there are plenty of videos of a guy walking around looking for stupid people to interview and ask tough questions and filtering out anyone who answers intelligently."
+1 I don't support them but you can't hold them responsible for the nut-job in that last video.Oct 22, 2013 at 8:32 am #2036363
Exactly, Ian. Here's one with Liberals signing a petition to increase the police state and model it after Nazi Germany:
Extremely stupid, low info voters on BOTH sides.
MattOct 22, 2013 at 9:34 am #2036401
see, I told you so, Matt has some redemption possibility : )Oct 22, 2013 at 9:42 am #2036403
Where's the racism? Nobody want this one?Oct 22, 2013 at 9:59 am #2036406
Fred – redemption possibility? – not so clear : )Oct 22, 2013 at 10:05 am #2036410
"Where's the racism? Nobody want this one?"
Are there racists in the Tea Party? Yes. There are also racists among the Democrats, Whig Party, Communist Party, Dance Party, NFL, Elk Snort Wyoming Chapter of the Red Hat Society (Marge is as bigoted as they come), and I heard that the guy who works at that gas station down yonder really really hates "them thar foreigners."
Are they officially bigoted against homosexuals? Yes based on emails I've received from them. I suspect I've deleted all of them but I'll try to find one that I can copy and paste here later.Oct 22, 2013 at 10:20 am #2036418
People here have thrown racism out on the table or agreed with it. I find it a little hard to believe that a grassroots organization, with no structure, and a few core objectives, could all the sudden be the next generation of mouth breathing klansmen.Oct 22, 2013 at 10:30 am #2036423
Ok… I'll be less subtle this time.
The Tea Party is not racist as an organization. It is a large organization so not surprisingly, there are racists within the party. Anti-Tea Party zealots, like the guy who videotaped that psycho in the video linked above, will cherry pick the crazies from the Tea Party and present them to the world as being representative of the entire party.
Bigoted as an organization against homosexuals? Yes. Racist? Not that I've seen other than some bad apples from within their membership.Oct 22, 2013 at 12:06 pm #2036456
Sorry Ian as I hadn't seen your last post when I entered mine. I get the bad apple part. I don't see bigoted actions. I see people that don't believe certain issues fall under the jurisdiction of the fed, and are thus labeled non caring a-holz. I've been told that myself.Oct 22, 2013 at 1:00 pm #2036478
"see, I told you so, Matt has some redemption possibility : )"
Not sure that makes me feel better, Jerry :)
MattOct 22, 2013 at 1:08 pm #2036484
@ouzelLocale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
"I find it a little hard to believe that a grassroots organization, with no structure, and a few core objectives, could all the sudden be the next generation of mouth breathing klansmen."
Does the TP have any African Americans or Hispanics in its membership?Oct 22, 2013 at 1:28 pm #2036494
@aldoleopoldLocale: Great Lakes
20 of the most racist tea party signs
Kentucky Tea Party sells "Yup I'm a racist" fourth of July T-shirtsOct 22, 2013 at 2:25 pm #2036532
"And another thing…beyond Grayson and his cross, there's Democrat Senator Harry Reid refering to Barack Obama as light-skinned and not speaking in "Negro" dialect. And Democrat Vice President Joe Biden refering to Barack Obama as "clean and articulate." Where oh where is the outrage from NAACP, National Urban League, Congressional Black Caucus, Rev's Jackson or Sharpton? Oops, I forgot — white liberal progressives have a get out of jail free card. It's just tragic that these traitors are selling the black community out to the party of slavery, Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow, literacy tests, poll tax, and modern day economic servitude. And they call me Uncle Tom?"–
Rep. Alan Grayson's use of burning cross imagery in his recent fundraising email. Maybe he ought to crack open a history book, in between histrionics, to learn it was his party who created the KKK.
So, Dean…who's REALLY the racist here??
MattOct 22, 2013 at 2:32 pm #2036541
The photo that is. Pun intended.
It took Superman to decimate the KKK.Oct 22, 2013 at 2:39 pm #2036546
Does the TP have any African Americans or Hispanics in its membership?
This is the determining factor of a racist organization?
But…The answer to your question is yes, both. (Insert your own offensive racist Blazing Saddles line here… I would but not on this forum. Too many of the smart people wouldn't get it I'm afraid)
to Scott Jones. Your evidence is underwhelming. Stupid, really? It's ok to not know. My BS meter went straight to red when I started reading your post. Maybe it was meant to be entertaining. It was regardless.Oct 22, 2013 at 2:49 pm #2036552
The Tea Party people I know say some pretty extreme things, though they are not listed on the TP platform. They vote with the GOP.
Here is the local Republican Platform with some outtakes.
2.1 Complete control of public education should be at the local level through elected school boards.
2.3 State Education funding should not be garnered from property taxes, but by revenue generated from state lands and assets – such as natural resource income.
3.4 We oppose lifestyle orientation and sensitivity training in our schools.
4.2 We categorically reject the implementation of government mandated, socialized healthcare in any form. (LIke Medicare ?).
6.5 We believe that court cases involving public lands, environmental policy enforcement and water rights conflicts should only be heard in the local jurisdiction where such public land is situated.
6.6 We support a policy of reduction of federal and state holdings of lands and assets, and oppose the establishment of United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Biosphere Reserves on American soil, Agenda 21, the Yukon to Yellowstone buffer zones, or any other international or domestic plan designed or leading to the impairing of private property rights or the environmentally destructive under utilization of public lands. (Environmentally destructive under utilization?)
6.9 We question the accuracy of the information used to suggest man-made Climate Change and reject any and all attempts to use this as an excuse to levy taxes or regulate business through a State or Federal program, including “Cap and Trade”.
6.10 We are opposed to the Washington Wolf Plan. Washington should have no wolves and wolves should not be listed as a state endangered species.
7.6 –Children born in the United States to persons who illegally enter or reside in the United States should not be granted the rights, benefits and privileges of citizenship.Oct 22, 2013 at 3:08 pm #2036565
"Shutdown Is “A Trojan Horse” – Get Ready For Major Emp Attack On American Soil & Much Worse – The Perfect Storm Is Here
AFTER TWO YEARS OF NON-STOP CHEMTRAILS THERE ARE NONE – PREP IS COMPLETE
From putting together the pieces, the primary purpose of the shutdown is to drop U.S. Defenses to invasion from outside forces. That can be easily substantiated by examining what services are stopped which should never…ever be stopped as they protect the United States from advanced forces as well as tracking major troop movements. "
"SHERIFF: This Land is Our Land, Feds Have No Jurisdiction!"Oct 22, 2013 at 3:14 pm #2036566
"The photo that is. Pun intended.
It took Superman to decimate the KKK.
Make light (pun intended) of it all you want, David, but the truth is that burning cross picture was from a Democratic Liberal. And the Tea Party are the racists here? Talk about hypocrisy!
MattOct 22, 2013 at 3:16 pm #2036568
@aldoleopoldLocale: Great Lakes
Some had called for examples of tea party racism. I pointed some out.
Where did I ever say that racism only only exists in the TP. I did not.
I believe also that you are articulate enough to know that the Democratic and Republican parties of 1865 has little resemblance to their modern counterparts. Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and even Eisenhower would likely be considered democrats by todays standards. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who started the klan was a confederate officer who murdered surrendering black troops at Ft. Pillow during the CW, but I'm sure you knew that.
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