Does slick Spectra bear bag line deter rodents climbing down it?

[Ken Thompson]

Those turkey bags should work just fine. They are a favorite way to package up marijuana for transport up here. I don't smell anything through them. And that stuff reeks. Same as oven bags.

Nylofume bags are used by fumigating companies for your item storage while your house is being gassed.

Or lump it, and pack a canister.

Delmar, come to the GGG in January. A great chance to see what works for others in person.

Edit. Thanks for the correction Bob. Geez.

[Bob Gross]

"Nylafume bags are used by fumigating companies for your item storage while your house is being gassed."

Nylofume is even better.

We had some of those traded around here a couple of years ago.

–B.G.–

[Delmar O’Donnell]

Thanks for the invite Ken.

I had to look up GGG. According to google, that would be:

(1) Girls Go Games (free online games for girls), or

(2) Good, Giving, and Game (from urban dictionary, so sexual connotations of course), or

(3) Gathering of Gear Geeks. I'll assume the invite was for this one.

Are So Cal'ers actually allowed?

You are the organizer of GGG are you not, sir? Next date would be?

[Ken Thompson]

Delmar, Look here

2013 GGG

and here

2014 GGG

Now back to food theft prevention.

I even allow out of staters', gasp..

[Dale Wambaugh]

I've mentioned it before regarding bears and it would do well with smaller critters: just electrify your food container. Nothing lethal of couse, just the same technology as an electric fence charger powered by batteries and used for some sort of bag, like an Ursak. One mouthful of loose electrons should be excellent negative reinforcement. The same device could have a buzzer and flashing lights to let the sleeping campers know they have visitors. It should be far lighter and more compact than any kind of bear can.

[Anonymous]

If you are not in bear country or otherwise not worried about bears, why not skip the bag hanging entirely?

A couple of Tritan based Nalgene large mouth 32 oz screw top bottles can fit a decent amount of food, and if you screw the top really hard i doubt anything is going to get in it! I'm sure a raccoon could probably get into it if the cap was screwed on more lightly, but i doubt they have the strength of "hands" to unscrew a cap very tightly screwed on by a grown man. If you're still worried about that, wrap and tie some of that cord around the screw cap to delay even further.

Those bottles are tough, tough, tough usually. Plus, they can double as your water reservoir.

[Phillip Asby]

I guess you could even hang a Nalgene or two if you really needed to – it is an interesting thought and one I hadn't considered.

I'm also guessing the relative weight of that solution would be unappealing but it would fit into the "multi use" category at least once the food is eaten!

[Delmar O’Donnell]

> why not skip the bag hanging entirely?

Because it is the lightest method of securing food, by far. My spectra cord is 1 oz and an oven-roast bag another 0.5 oz, giving enough capacity for 5 days food.

Two Tritan Nalgenes would weigh 13 oz and would restrict my food space to 64 oz volume, just a scootch over one day's food (figuring 1.5 liters of space for a day's food, as has been discussed elsewhere here at BPL).

Plus, I've had rodents chew through heavy plastic buckets. Best to keep those rodent teeth far away as possible.

[Anonymous]

Hi Philip,

No need to have to wait to eat the food if you already have the food in baggies, during the day food goes in pack and can use bottles for other things, and night it gets locked up in bottles.

[Anonymous]

I see your points Delmar. Personally, I dislike the process of hanging food which is why where I backpack, even if I'm not sleeping in a shelter, I still usually sleep near one to take advantage of the bear poles they usually have.

1.5 liters a day? Well, I'm pretty spartan with food in comparison. 64 oz of food space could last me almost a week. But I have unusual diet, eating habits, and consistently have trained my body to a low calorie diet. I should have factored in that difference with others though.

Yes hanging is much lighter, but I believe the oven bags are not directly for hanging but to cut down on odor, I would put it all in either silnylon or cuben.

Not being a gram counter myself, conveniency is an important factor for me. But I don't backpack anywhere where bears are not an issue, so I won't be testing this myself but will stick with the lazy hangs with bear poles.

Different plastics have different properties. Tritan is VERY strong and durable stuff. I don't think any rodent could get into it during hours of sleep, but I may be wrong.

[Delmar O’Donnell]

Don't hold my feet to the fire about the 1.5L per day; I've not done any research on it. There was a discussion on BPL somewhere about how much SPACE a day's food took, and I recollect the collective wisdom was, for dried and dehydrated foods, about 1.5L per day. Agree that hanging is a pain.

What's the rationale for not just hanging an oven bag? Why is the second layer of cuben or sylnylon necessary?

EDIT: Found the volume discussion, the numbers were between 1 and 1-1/2 L per day in space:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73667&startat=20

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=53766

[Anonymous]

I've never hung with oven bags so can't say for sure, but silnylon and cuben are going to have much stronger tensile strength which is important if you are hanging a lot of food. If you have already used oven bags alone successfully, then ignore the former.

[Bob Gross]

Many of us operate in areas where bear canisters are either required or else very practical. There is a standard volume of 100 cubic inches, and we attempt to beat that for each day's worth of food. Otherwise, it doesn't fit.

I did a nine-day trip with a Garcia can one time. That food was packed tightly.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

"64 oz of food space could last me almost a week. But I have unusual diet, eating habits, and consistently have trained my body to a low calorie diet. I should have factored in that difference with others though."

This is the low hanging fruit that most UL backpackers miss when looking for ways to reduce their carried weight and volume. However, one needs to realize that, no matter how well they train their body, simple physics dictates that it takes a certain amount of energy provided by the corresponding number of calories, to move a given weight a given distance; the difference between the calories required and the calories provided by food will be made up by body fat initially and then muscle protein.

[Anonymous]

Hi Tom,

I don't reduce food to reduce weight/volume in and of itself, its just part of an overall direction that I've moved to in the last couple of years. Nor would I eat like a bird on any kind of extended hike (over a week). I ended up eating a lot when I did the Camino. There is something very different about an extended trip vs a short one food wise, even for me who eats on average around a 1000 calories a day.

I also don't recommend for others to restrict calories when active.

I was just pointing out that not everyone eats X amount of food a day as per some idealized formula.

[Anonymous]

"I don't reduce food to reduce weight/volume in and of itself, its just part of an overall direction that I've moved to in the last couple of years. Nor would I eat like a bird on any kind of extended hike (over a week). I ended up eating a lot when I did the Camino. There is something very different about an extended trip vs a short one food wise, even for me who eats on average around a 1000 calories a day."

Hi Justin,

Please don't think I'm being critical. IMO, you're on a good track. Weight/volume is a positive byproduct of your lifestyle decisions. I came at it from a different direction and ended up with that result purposefully, but we both arrived at the same point. I only posted to ensure that people don't think one can do that on extended hikes. Body fat will only go so far, as has been discussed on several previous threads, and you seem to be well aware of that.

[Anonymous]

Got yah Tom, and no worries. I probably should have been more specific previously.

Btw, quick correction, did some more specific calculations, my average is more like 1500 calories a day, (not backpacking!, i bring calorie dense food usually for that).

[Anonymous]

"Got yah Tom, and no worries."

:0)

[Delmar O’Donnell]

I think it Goes With Out Saying that different people (on different hikes) are going to be eating different weights and volumes. But it's also handy to have a rule of thumb when you're planning your packing…how much will my food likely weigh? How much space will it likely take? I love having a formula, even if I later disregard it or find it is inaccurate.

The volume of food per day, in liters, that I've seen mentioned here at BPL, culling from a variety of different threads (yes, I actually take notes on forum posts!!) is: 1 liter — 1.2 liters — 1.5 liters — 1.6 liters — 1.8 liters. Obviously this also varies by how much you compress your food; if all your food is powdered and dry (poor you), likely on the low end.

And, if interested, I've also recorded reported weight per day of food, in ounces. From what I've read here at BPL:

19 — 20 — 21 — 22 — 24.

The above numbers have not let me down yet. I weigh my meals, calculate days out, and am pretty darned happy with how little I have left over at 22 ounces per day. Which is very close to the same number Clelland came up with, observing 10 people over 13 days of hiking.

So far, a medium size nylon freezer bag will nicely hold 5 days (7.5 lbs) of food — no catastrophes yet. I do carry tape in case I get a rip. I twist the end tightly, make a bight of it, and then wire-tie the bight in place with a Nite Ize Gear Tie. The loop I made of the sack's end gets clipped in a carabiner, and up it goes. I suppose it goes without saying that a nylon freezer bag presents almost no barrier against rodents. This, I have verified!

[Anonymous]

"So far, a medium size nylon freezer bag will nicely hold 5 days (7.5 lbs) of food"

Check out the Nylo Barrier bags sold on Lite-Trail.com They will hold as much food as you can get into any canister, and have the additional advantage of being functionally odor proof. They weigh ~.4 oz each.

[Author]

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