Oct 3, 2013 at 3:45 pm #1308330
Follow this crappy scenario….
Park Ranger is working unpaid as she's essential but there's no budget. There are more rangers at the mall to keep things closed than there are when everything is open. For that matter, I've never seen a ranger at the WWII memorial as it doesn't need one so I'm completely dumbfounded as to why they would need to close it in the first place.
The best part? The representative is not only a congressman but is from the GOP and has the audacity to tell the ranger that she ought to be ashamed.
This hits a nerve with me as the rangers' job is often thankless but this is a new low.Oct 3, 2013 at 4:02 pm #2030591
Meh. Same POS that yelled "baby killer!" during House debate. Same POS who, like many of his ilk, have never even served in the military. Just another in a long line of congressional POSs.Oct 3, 2013 at 4:47 pm #2030603
Well, you just motivated me to try and contact the POS. His "contact me" page is conveniently malfunctioning at the moment, so I left my thoughts via the option to "report a problem with the webpage". Probably some poor innocent I.T. person will end up reading it…Oct 3, 2013 at 5:18 pm #2030614
spelt with a tParticipant
@speltLocale: SW/C PA
I would say call his office to share your thoughts, but the staffers who answer the phones are probably furloughed….Oct 3, 2013 at 5:38 pm #2030621
"I would say call his office to share your thoughts, but the staffers who answer the phones are probably furloughed…."
Silly you. Congress and the Prez are exempt from the furlough. So while they have no problem taking pay away from hundreds of thousands of federal employees who work hard and get their jobs done, they continue to get paid for not doing much of anything.
For all the hate and venom they direct at federal workers, it certainly seems to me that they, actually, are the most worthless of all federal workers.
So, government too big? Yes, I'd say by about 536 employees, give or take……Oct 3, 2013 at 6:47 pm #2030647
spelt with a tParticipant
@speltLocale: SW/C PA
That's actual members of Congress who're still getting paid. I'm betting their office staffs have been cut. All the better to ignore constituents. You know they aren't answering the phones themselves.Oct 3, 2013 at 7:01 pm #2030655
And another beauty to that WWII memorial story is that the park rangers who were there showed up – voluntarily and without pay – to allow the Honor Flight veterans in, but to keep everyone else away.Oct 3, 2013 at 7:07 pm #2030660
"That's actual members of Congress who're still getting paid. I'm betting their office staffs have been cut."
They have pretty wide latitude on whether or not to furlough their staffs. Some have furloughed some members of their staff, some have declared their entire staff essential personnel and haven't furloughed any of them.Oct 3, 2013 at 7:14 pm #2030665
"Voluntarily" is not the word I would use here. She's an "essential" employee and is doing her duty in accordance with her oath. I'm not trying to sound calloused as I'm in the same position as her even though I don't work for NPS. I'm sure we'll get reimbursed at some point in the future but just not sure if that will be next week or in three months. Good thing none of us have mortgages or families or this would really suck.Oct 3, 2013 at 7:56 pm #2030675
"Yes, I'd say by about 536 employees, give or take……"
All it would take is for the American people to remove their collective heads from that place where the sun don't shine and cast an intelligent vote. Just once, and all this could change. But I'm not holding my breath.Oct 3, 2013 at 8:01 pm #2030678
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
What does an intelligent vote look like when half the population denies *very* basic science ?Oct 3, 2013 at 8:06 pm #2030683
"What does an intelligent vote look like when half the population denies *very* basic science ?"
Good question. On second thought, maybe we'd better quit while we're ahead. :(Oct 4, 2013 at 3:21 pm #2030891
"And another beauty to that WWII memorial story is that the park rangers who were there showed up – voluntarily and without pay – to allow the Honor Flight veterans in, but to keep everyone else away."
Jennifer…can you back that up, please. I was under the impression that they did not let anyone in and that the WW2 vets broke it down to get in the first day. Seems to me they are spending money on the materials to create a barricade where none should exist, on an open air memorial open 24/7. Waste of time and money just to prove a point. I disagree about the ranger, too. They should all be ashamed of themselves and should have just said "…no! I will not do that to our heroes. Come do it yourself". If good men and women fail to stand up to tyranny, that is when it is allowed to exist.
MattOct 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm #2030897
"I disagree about the ranger, too. They should all be ashamed of themselves and should have just said "…no! I will not do that to our heroes. Come do it yourself". If good men and women fail to stand up to tyranny, that is when it is allowed to exist."
Closing a monument is tyranny? Unnecessary and politically driven, yes. Tyranny…. dude… you really need to get out more…. that isn't tyranny by a long shot.
You may not agree but that ranger put on her uniform, came to work unpaid, and enforced the laws that our democratically elected officials have written into law all while being belittled and second guessed by those who she is sworn to serve (the people and constitution, not the politicians).
If you're so quick to criticize, maybe you would like to share with the class what your contribution to society was today?Oct 4, 2013 at 4:15 pm #2030899
"democratically elected officials"
Ian…we don't live in a Democracy…it's a Constitutional Republic. These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and (b) The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority.
MattOct 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm #2030904
Thanks for the fourth grade civics class. Yes I understand that we live in a representative democracy. So semantics aside…..
Did you go to work today? That job, did it require for you to take an oath, for among other things, to do your duty and serve your country? Were you paid for that service? Were you called a Nazi by those who you are sworn to serve and protect? Did your elected representatives use you as a political pawn today?
If I had to guess, your answer is yes, no, yes, no, and no. Unless I'm incorrect, your words are cheap, your opinion is of no value to me, and this conversation is over.Oct 4, 2013 at 4:47 pm #2030906
Ian…I believe you still did not pass the 4th grade civics class, my friend…we do not live in a "representative Democracy"…sigh…
The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man.
This is true whether it be a Direct Democracy, or a Representative Democracy. In the direct type, applicable only to a small number of people as in the little city-states of ancient Greece, or in a New England town-meeting, all of the electorate assemble to debate and decide all government questions, and all decisions are reached by a majority vote (of at least half-plus-one). Decisions of The Majority in a New England town-meeting are, of course, subject to the Constitutions of the State and of the United States which protect The Individual’s rights; so, in this case, The Majority is not omnipotent and such a town-meeting is, therefore, not an example of a true Direct Democracy. Under a Representative Democracy like Britain’s parliamentary form of government, the people elect representatives to the national legislature–the elective body there being the House of Commons–and it functions by a similar vote of at least half-plus-one in making all legislative decisions.
In both the Direct type and the Representative type of Democracy, The Majority’s power is absolute and unlimited; its decisions are unappealable under the legal system established to give effect to this form of government. This opens the door to unlimited Tyranny-by-Majority. This was what The Framers of the United States Constitution meant in 1787, in debates in the Federal (framing) Convention, when they condemned the "excesses of democracy" and abuses under any Democracy of the unalienable rights of The Individual by The Majority. Examples were provided in the immediate post-1776 years by the legislatures of some of the States. In reaction against earlier royal tyranny, which had been exercised through oppressions by royal governors and judges of the new State governments, while the legislatures acted as if they were virtually omnipotent. There were no effective State Constitutions to limit the legislatures because most State governments were operating under mere Acts of their respective legislatures which were mislabelled "Constitutions." Neither the governors not the courts of the offending States were able to exercise any substantial and effective restraining influence upon the legislatures in defense of The Individual’s unalienable rights, when violated by legislative infringements. (Connecticut and Rhode Island continued under their old Charters for many years.) It was not until 1780 that the first genuine Republic through constitutionally limited government, was adopted by Massachusetts–next New Hampshire in 1784, other States later.Oct 4, 2013 at 4:52 pm #2030907
"Closing a monument is tyranny? Unnecessary and politically driven, yes. Tyranny…. dude… you really need to get out more…. that isn't tyranny by a long shot. "–Ian
noun: tyranny; plural noun: tyrannies
cruel and oppressive government or rule.
"people who survive war and escape tyranny"
synonyms: despotism, absolute power, autocracy, dictatorship, totalitarianism,"
Sure fits my definition of the word.
“How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?” Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said. “Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?” [1984 by George Orwell]
And that is exactly why the Obama Administration is closing the parks and monuments.
MattOct 4, 2013 at 6:35 pm #2030924
Our POTUS continues to use gun analogies to describe the current situation between the Democrats and Republicans over the government slowdown.
Seems weird for someone so intent on eliminating gun violence. I guess he must play Grand Theft Auto after hours.
It seems the world is upside down, yesterday Harry Reid was willing to let one child die to save 1100 of his voters.Oct 4, 2013 at 6:56 pm #2030927
While I meant the things I said, I said them in a way I regret.
Have a nice weekend everyone.Oct 4, 2013 at 6:57 pm #2030928
"I guess he must play Grand Theft Auto after hours."
Beats playing it for real on the floor of The House of Representatives.Oct 4, 2013 at 8:32 pm #2030939
"While I meant the things I said, I said them in a way I regret.
Have a nice weekend everyone."
All cool, Ian :)
MattOct 6, 2013 at 8:34 am #2031205
"And that is exactly why the Obama Administration is closing the parks and monuments"
FYI, since you are so up on your middle school civics classes, you should realize that funding is not provided by the administration but rather by Congress. The Obama administration shut nothing down…the House of Representatives did by not funding the government. Obama has had nothing whatsoever to do with this…other than to reiterate that he wouldn't negotiate his duly passed, confirmed by the Supreme Court, health insurance reform bill while under threat.
And what's with the the capital letters on everything?? I don't believe you passed any grammar classes in grade school……Oct 6, 2013 at 8:38 am #2031209
Here's the appropriate line from the piece:
"The Park Service has been allowing World War II vets who have traveled from all over the country to enter the memorial, even though it's closed during the government shutdown; the rangers say they are exercising their First Amendment rights as they let the veterans in.
But they are keeping the rest of the public out of the facility, which is officially closed. And that did not sit well with the congressman, reported News4's Mark Segraves, who witnessed the confrontation."Oct 6, 2013 at 8:47 am #2031213
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
"And what's with the the capital letters on everything?? I don't believe you passed any grammar classes in grade school……"
That is not necessary nor is it going to help anything. Edit, maybe?
Editing my own, as it did not help a thing either…
Can we not discuss, even heatedly, without personal attacks?
When I lived in a small redneck community in the foothills and would get into discussions with people about,say, the death penalty, gay rights, immigration etc. I would often be personally attacked for being a " hippy" or a " damn liberal". I would try and keep the discussion to the topic at hand, but some felt they had the right to go straight to name calling. They would look at each other and scoff and agree that it was ok to do that.
I see the same thing happening here, on both sides.
If someone holds a view that is contrary to ours, even absurd in our opinion, that still does not give us the right to attack one personally.
When we do that we are the ones responsible for degenerating a discussion.
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